Clearance/Tail Lights Not Working

[john_d_dobbs]

We have a 2008 Winnebago View 24H and we're on the road this week. The 5 red lights along the top rear of the RV - clearance/tail or lamps (or running lights) are not lighting. I believe they are supposed to be lit when the engine is running or at least while the transmission is in gear. Brake lights and turn signals are working fine.

I first started searching for fuses under the drivers seat and then under the drivers side foot area. There are lots of fuses there with no clue as to what they are for - I don't seem to have a fuse panel diagram.

I did find the automotive and coach circuit breakers under passenger seat and there is a breaker there marked CLEARANCE/TAIL LAMPS but that appears to be Ok.

Any other hints as to where I might look for the cause of this problem?

Thanks,
John

[john_d_dobbs]

In response to Photomike - you're right about walking around the RV before taking off. I'm guessing that these lights had been out for some time. Only got noticed when we were driving in winter in AZ early in the dark.

Thanks all for your help. I'm now able to fix this. Unfortunately the running lights went out again. Fortunately, I had an extra relay! I'm guessing it happens when turning into a shopping center and going diagonally over the driveway ramp from the street. There's quite a bit of sway and I can imagine that the cable bundle going up the back end of the body get quite jostled. But that's just a guess until they fail again.

John

[Photomike]

A side note... many times people travel for days without checking their lights. PLEASE take a minute if not each day then every other day to check your lights. It is a BIG shock to be traveling behind a huge RV and all of a sudden have them stop with no warning as the lights are out. Have seen this with all types of RV's. This is one of those things we should learn from truckers - check you lights and tires when you stop!

[j-d]

"Bosch" Relays like this?

If so, they're widely available. Bosch no longer makes them, sold the rights to TYCO, so TYCO might be best quality out there now, in a "name brand" sense. There are lots of KnockOffs available. Like $2 apiece at Amazon when you buy a pack of six, and that includes sockets! If I had a rack of Bosch Relays in my coach I'd keep a spare on board.

LOTS of GOOD in this thread:

YOU - Posted an understandable problem statement. Persisted and followed suggestions.

FORUM - Good people took time to help you. I knew if the likes of Drew took a look at the diagrams, they'd put a finger on it.

WINNEBAGO - Provides detail information like no one else. Most RV builders' diagrams can tell you what a circuit is supposed to do, but not how it's wired or where components are physically placed. They also used these RELAYS to keep voltage up to would it should be, all the way out to the "extremities." Not all do. On ours, I replaced Stop/Tail/Turn lights on both Coach and Toad with LED, to get decent brightness. Did that rather than relays, since I have no idea where the OEM wiring is. Winnebago does, all the way down to the screw that holds a harness clip in place.

Good on all of you!

[john_d_dobbs]

Replaced a couple relays, and that seems to have fixed front and rear clearance lights and tail lights.

[john_d_dobbs]

Winnebago Customer Service got back to me with these two diagrams for relay location. See Chassis wiring installation On the third sheet, in the upper right, are shown a set of relays under the passenger seat.

Initial testing was positive although still a couple funny things going on. Will keep you posted.

[john_d_dobbs]

Hmmm, good questions. The brake lights and turn signals work when I touch the brake pedal or use the turn signal switch. Brake lights are not on when the lights are on.

[DrewE]

Do your tail lights (the two red lights associated with the brake lights and turn signals that are on when the headlights are on) work? If so, the relay is OK as they get power from the same relay, according to the diagram.

[john_d_dobbs]

Thanks again for everyone's help. I've poked around a bit more. On wiring diagram http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2008/08_524h_wire_160995.pdf I found a relay labeled TAIL/CLEARANCE LAMP RELAY. From the diagram, seems like this could have something to do with both my front and rear clearance lamps. But I can't find where this is located. Does anyone have a relay location map for this 2008 View 24H?

Thanks,
John

[DrewE]

I took a look at the diagrams linked above. Note that each sheet of diagram is spread over two or three pages in the PDF, so sheet numbers and page numbers bear a rather tenuous relationship.

The clearance lights get their power from the rightmost fuse (15A) in the fuse block on sheet 1, at B5. Wire TTN goes from this fuse to the relay contacts of the right most relay of the line, at D4, and the switched output of this relay to wire MM to the oblong taillight connector at A10, the square taillight connector at A11, and the bigger connector illustrated at A12 that is noted as being underneath the fridge.

The other half of this bigger connector is illustrated on Sheet 2, D7, and the MM circuit continues to another pretty big connector at sheet 2, D13, feeding the roof harness and located in the pantry.

The mating connector is illustrated on sheet 3, A6, and the circuit goes to the connector for the clearance lights around D5/D6. From here, the actual clearance light circuit is not among the diagrams in the document, but since it's two wires going to each lamp it shouldn't be too terribly tricky to figure out.

At any rate, if the fuse seems good and the relay seems OK, and particularly if the taillights are illuminating properly, the connectors underneath the fridge and in the pantry would be very good places to check. Indeed, if the taillights--and presumably rear license plate light--work, the problem can't be the fuse or relay.

The tail lights (and clearance lights) shouldn't illuminate with the daytime running lights. They should be on when the parking lights or headlights are switched on.

[Bordercollie]

Find out where the clearance lights, etc. are grounded and if there are relays that may be defective from Winnebago. Make sure ground connection(s) for lights are clean of corrosion and tight. Fuse holders have connections with screws that can become corroded or loose. The grounded outer shell of bulb holders can become corroded and not make good connection to bulb bodies. A good Winnebago dealer service department should know how to find the problem(s)and advise you.

[j-d]

Yep, I'd try to find the Relay. Then you can check for supply power, grounding, control power, and listen for it to click if it gets power and control.

From Charles' post, do you have the DRL feature? If you do, it seems the lights would come on from the column switch and also maybe from the DRL circuit.

When you "check" a fuse, how are you doing it? Swapping a known good fuse, or using a meter, is far better than eyeballing it, even though it has that little window that should show if it's good.

Charles, I like the idea of disabling DLR. Only our 2006 Corolla has DRL and both bulbs are good at 95000 miles. They burn at a lower intensity than headlights, so that may account for the longevity. I'm told the heat of the bulbs contributes to the yellowing of the plastic lenses, so it'd be nice to get rid of the feature for that. May look for a Fuse or two...

I'm also Old School about headlights off when approaching the sentries at military bases. Can't do that in the Corolla. So many cars have DRL now that the signs "Dim Lights for Sentry" are no longer in place...

[john_d_dobbs]

I've checked the fuses described in the owners manual as "body builder" fuses, and checked all others while I was at it - all fuses are good. So now perhaps a relay?

Thanks for everyone's helpful responses! I'm learning a lot from this little episode.

John

[CharlesinGA]

CharlesinGA wrote:
Do the lights work when you manually turn on the lights with the switch on the stalk?

I'm guessing the NCV3 chassis is like my slightly older T1N chassis in that there are three fuses for Daytime running lights (DLR) and those are the LH head light, RH headlight, and the running lights. Yes, MB includes the running lights in the DLR circuit. You can, on mine, pull these fuses and not affect the normal operation of the lights via the headlight/parking/running light switch on the stalk, those are separate fuses.

I removed the three DLR fuses and when I need lights I manually turn on the lights with the switch, just like I do with my other cars. Saves bulbs from burning out so often. On mine the three DLR fuses are located in the drivers seat base, outboard side. The legend to the fuse panel is on the inside of the access door to the fuses.

Charles
2007 Winnebago View 523H on a 2006 Dodge (Daimler-Chrysler aka Mercedes) Sprinter 3500 chassis (T1N). Bought Sept 2015 with 18K miles on it, Prog Ind HW30C, Prog Dymanics PD4645, Chill Grille, PML/Yourcovers.com deep alum trans pan, AutoMeter 8558 trans temp gauge, Roadmaster sway bar, Fantastic Ultra Breeze hood, added OEM parabolic mirrors and RH aspherical mirror.

[CharlesinGA]

Do the lights work when you manually turn on the lights with the switch on the stalk?

I'm guessing the NCV3 chassis is like my slightly older T1N chassis in that there are three fuses for Daytime running lights (DLR) and those are the LH head light, RH headlight, and the running lights. Yes, MB includes the running lights in the DLR circuit. You can, on mine, pull these fuses and not affect the normal operation of the lights via the headlight/parking/running light switch on the stalk, those are separate fuses.

Charles
2007 Winnebago View 523H on a 2006 Dodge (Daimler-Chrysler aka Mercedes) Sprinter 3500 chassis (T1N). Bought Sept 2015 with 18K miles on it, Prog Ind HW30C, Prog Dymanics PD4645, Chill Grille, PML/Yourcovers.com deep alum trans pan, AutoMeter 8558 trans temp gauge, Roadmaster sway bar, Fantastic Ultra Breeze hood, added OEM parabolic mirrors and RH aspherical mirror.