Help with entry level diesel pushers

[DriverMan]

I've been looking at a new Forest River Berkshire and Winnebago Forza. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the two companies. Do they have a good reputation for warranted work and being good to their customers? And is there a reason to s select one company over the other.

I'd also like your thoughts on the Berkshire and Forza coaches? I know the Berkshire has the better raised rail chassis. But are they both dependable and have good owner reputations?

Thank you

[2gypsies1]

I would also highly recommend a couple year old motorhome rather than a new one. You can get better quality for your money. Also, look at quality over the floorplan. If the RV starts falling apart what good is the floorplan? A used Newmar would be our recommendation but then, we're partial.

Winnebago roofs are a design flaw.

[WILDEBILL308]

Jack_Pine wrote:
When we talk about used pre downturn vs not (say 07 vs 14) what quality issues are we talking about? Fit and finish, drive train. mechanicals, all?

Jack go follow the links I posted earlier. You can find a used better quality coach for the same as you would pay for a "entry level". Used coaches should have all the bugs worked out but you still need to do your do diligence in checking them out or paying someone to do it for you.
Bill

[Jack_Pine]

When we talk about used pre downturn vs not (say 07 vs 14) what quality issues are we talking about? Fit and finish, drive train. mechanicals, all?

[Mile_High]

Bruce Brown wrote:

Mile High wrote:

Bruce Brown wrote:

DriverMan wrote:
My thanks to all of you for your comments.

It looks to me the roof problem with Winnebago is a serious one. Such a problem could literally destroy your motorhome. An that its most likely out of warranty by that time could be financially catastrophic, or am I overstating things?

You mentioned the seal, is this something you can reasonable check on your own? And if so is it something you can fix on your own?

How often should something like this be checked, every 5 years, 10 years, what? Can I assume this is all Winnebago's and not just the entry level Forza?

Is the a deal breaker? I can't think of many things worse than a faulty roof! I can understand slide problems etc, but a roof, Not Good!

I did a Google search for "trouble with Winnebago roofs" and was surprised to find very little on the subject! Has Winnebago commented on it anywhere and what their doing about it?

Mile High gave a great explanation and illustration of the issue. Maintenance/inspection is required every 6 months I believe. The Itasca (Winnie twin) we owned was built before they went to this terrible design. For me it would be a deal breaker.

As for the repair, well...do you know anyone other than the factory that can change that roof? I sure don't. As to cost, I disagree with Mile High on that one. I currently have a 35' 5th wheel in my garage - I'm helping a friend replace his rubber roof. It's basically done, he has roughly $800 in materials. He went with the Alpha system, it's pretty nice. A few years back I put an EPDM rubber roof on our TT, I had about $300 in that job. Any shop can do a "rubber" roof, I don't know of one that could do a full fiberglass roof replacement - other than the factory.

I'm not saying "rubber" is better, I AM saying some fiberglass just isn't too good.

For the record, ours has a BriteTek roof, which is a modified rubber. It's our 3rd one with this system and I absolutely love it.

MMM - not really fair to talk about costs doing a roof yourself in the garage. My comparison was based on the typical rubber roof replacement on a 40' fifth wheel at $6,000 - real dollars based on an Alpha Roof. Alpha may be an improved material over other rubber roofs, but is very thin by the way - not the best roof out there for resistance to branches or screws coming up through the bottom.

I'm actually going to call a Dealer today to see how they would handle a fiberglass roof. Other than shipping, I don't see a high skill set required to install it.

I'd be VERY interested to hear what they have to say.

On my post I was making 2 points; 1) any shop any where can do a "rubber" roof and 2) if you're fairly handy and don't mind a little hard work you can do it yourself and save a bunch of $$$. With a full fiberglass roof you do not have that option.

Now having said that, if it was a decent quality fiberglass roof I could fix that too, as long as it was still there to work with.

I would agree with your two points. Definitely something that could be done with some help. My daughter did her pickup camper - she did good for having to do it outside.

I'll let you know what the Dealer says, because now I'm real curious how they would get the material there. Maybe the flat stock Winnebago uses wouldn't be that hard (maybe it can be rolled I don't know) but the J-hook formed type like Entegra uses would have to be shipped as they are.

[Bruce_Brown]

Mile High wrote:

Bruce Brown wrote:

DriverMan wrote:
My thanks to all of you for your comments.

It looks to me the roof problem with Winnebago is a serious one. Such a problem could literally destroy your motorhome. An that its most likely out of warranty by that time could be financially catastrophic, or am I overstating things?

You mentioned the seal, is this something you can reasonable check on your own? And if so is it something you can fix on your own?

How often should something like this be checked, every 5 years, 10 years, what? Can I assume this is all Winnebago's and not just the entry level Forza?

Is the a deal breaker? I can't think of many things worse than a faulty roof! I can understand slide problems etc, but a roof, Not Good!

I did a Google search for "trouble with Winnebago roofs" and was surprised to find very little on the subject! Has Winnebago commented on it anywhere and what their doing about it?

Mile High gave a great explanation and illustration of the issue. Maintenance/inspection is required every 6 months I believe. The Itasca (Winnie twin) we owned was built before they went to this terrible design. For me it would be a deal breaker.

As for the repair, well...do you know anyone other than the factory that can change that roof? I sure don't. As to cost, I disagree with Mile High on that one. I currently have a 35' 5th wheel in my garage - I'm helping a friend replace his rubber roof. It's basically done, he has roughly $800 in materials. He went with the Alpha system, it's pretty nice. A few years back I put an EPDM rubber roof on our TT, I had about $300 in that job. Any shop can do a "rubber" roof, I don't know of one that could do a full fiberglass roof replacement - other than the factory.

I'm not saying "rubber" is better, I AM saying some fiberglass just isn't too good.

For the record, ours has a BriteTek roof, which is a modified rubber. It's our 3rd one with this system and I absolutely love it.

MMM - not really fair to talk about costs doing a roof yourself in the garage. My comparison was based on the typical rubber roof replacement on a 40' fifth wheel at $6,000 - real dollars based on an Alpha Roof. Alpha may be an improved material over other rubber roofs, but is very thin by the way - not the best roof out there for resistance to branches or screws coming up through the bottom.

I'm actually going to call a Dealer today to see how they would handle a fiberglass roof. Other than shipping, I don't see a high skill set required to install it.

I'd be VERY interested to hear what they have to say.

On my post I was making 2 points; 1) any shop any where can do a "rubber" roof and 2) if you're fairly handy and don't mind a little hard work you can do it yourself and save a bunch of $$$. With a full fiberglass roof you do not have that option.

Now having said that, if it was a decent quality fiberglass roof I could fix that too, as long as it was still there to work with.

[DriverMan]

This has been great information and I thank you. It sounds like if you choose the coach that fits your needs and are willing to go through the break-in stage. Once the break in stage is over and things have been properly fixed, many of the problems are behind you.

I also like the comment about the extra money you can pay fixing a used coach vs having a warrantee that comes with a new coach. Never looked at it that way but it sure sounds right!

[wnytaxman]

Mile High wrote:

wnytaxman wrote:
I will be forever amazed at how so many folks can jump into the RV Lifestyle and spend not just tens of thousands, but hundreds of thousands of dollars on something that they have not bothered to fully research.

It's funny you say that! Last night I just couldn't bring myself to watch anymore of the debate so I randomly thumbed channels and hit the Big Time RV show where multiple couples come into LazyDays RV and get connected to a salesman to tour a few RVs and then make a decision. hahahaha - these people were dropping $600K in an afternoon after walking into 2 models and making a decision based on a few factors important to them such as size of bathroom and horsepower. Wow.....................

Like you, I prefer fluff to guff and watched "Selling Yachts" where a couple who had never owned a boat were going to drop $6 million on a yacht. HELLO! Is anyone home?

We have a dealer in our area that is notorious for gouging the uninformed. They will take a rig where the MSRP is $300,000 and then "discount" it by $25,000 when the prevailing discount on that brand would be at least $75,000. As if that isn't enough of a rip, they will then charge for dealer prep and nip the consumer for another few thousand.

[Mile_High]

wnytaxman wrote:
I will be forever amazed at how so many folks can jump into the RV Lifestyle and spend not just tens of thousands, but hundreds of thousands of dollars on something that they have not bothered to fully research.

It's funny you say that! Last night I just couldn't bring myself to watch anymore of the debate so I randomly thumbed channels and hit the Big Time RV show where multiple couples come into LazyDays RV and get connected to a salesman to tour a few RVs and then make a decision. hahahaha - these people were dropping $600K in an afternoon after walking into 2 models and making a decision based on a few factors important to them such as size of bathroom and horsepower. Wow.....................

[Mile_High]

Mondooker wrote:

DriverMan wrote:
I've been looking at a new Forest River Berkshire and Winnebago Forza.

Since the thread was started based on our thoughts between two coaches. With your kind indulgence I'll share a few things I've found out and maybe some will find it helpful.

Since I've been on my own journey into couch-dom I found some things I thought were interesting. What I show below is based on my Private Messages - Emails & phone conversations and is in no specific order. The numbers shown are the number of different people I talk to with each coach. I also limited my contacts to coach owners with a 2016/17 coaches!

Thor Palazzo 7
Forest River Berkshire 6
Coachman Cross Country 6
Winnebago Forza 4
Newmar Ventana LE 5

What do all 28 have in common you ask? Ever one of them to the person liked their coach! I asked each one of them "would you buy the coach again"? Only 1 in 28 wasn't sure. Most did not have recurring problems once they were fixed. If there was one thing in common to many owners were slide problems. One complained they thought their coach reacted to wind and trucks buffeting them more than expected.

Every coach shown above is an "entry level diesel pusher"! What did I conclude from all these conversations?
• Find the floor plan and styling you like.
• Know going in there will be things you'll need to get fixed.
• Read the coach manual, ask questions on the forum and know how things work on your coach.
• Make sure you like what you're buying because it will make demands on your time and central nurse system.

Hope this helps

Good post!

[wnytaxman]

Likewise Mondocker. Good advice for a newbie to buy what's best for them and their circumstances.

I will be forever amazed at how so many folks can jump into the RV Lifestyle and spend not just tens of thousands, but hundreds of thousands of dollars on something that they have not bothered to fully research.

[Mondooker]

Great post wnytaxman

[Mondooker]

DriverMan wrote:
I've been looking at a new Forest River Berkshire and Winnebago Forza.

Since the thread was started based on our thoughts between two coaches. With your kind indulgence I'll share a few things I've found out and maybe some will find it helpful.

Since I've been on my own journey into couch-dom I found some things I thought were interesting. What I show below is based on my Private Messages - Emails & phone conversations and is in no specific order. The numbers shown are the number of different people I talk to with each coach. I also limited my contacts to coach owners with a 2016/17 coaches!

Thor Palazzo 7
Forest River Berkshire 6
Coachman Cross Country 6
Winnebago Forza 4
Newmar Ventana LE 5

What do all 28 have in common you ask? Ever one of them to the person liked their coach! I asked each one of them "would you buy the coach again"? Only 1 in 28 wasn't sure. Most did not have recurring problems once they were fixed. If there was one thing in common to many owners were slide problems. One complained they thought their coach reacted to wind and trucks buffeting them more than expected.

Every coach shown above is an "entry level diesel pusher"! What did I conclude from all these conversations?
• Find the floor plan and styling you like.
• Know going in there will be things you'll need to get fixed.
• Read the coach manual, ask questions on the forum and know how things work on your coach.
• Make sure you like what you're buying because it will make demands on your time and central nurse system.

Hope this helps

[atperci]

We recently had a Progressive Insurance adjuster check the damage to our awning from a sudden thunderstorm while in Mesa Verde. While he was on the roof he mentioned making sure to reseal a few seams that were cracking on our TPO roof before the rainy season starts.

Later, we were conversing and I mentioned our desire to upgrade to a DP for a possible round the country trip with our kids. He made an unsolicited comment about the problems he has seen with Winnebago's fiberglass roof system and advised to stay away from it.

He said the factory won't cover it, they claim it's a maintenance issue and that in many cases it's out of warranty. He actually stated that occasionally insurance won't cover it in some cases when it was very evident that preventive maintenance was never performed.

Just wanted to pass on professional's take on the situation.

[wnytaxman]

We have had a Forest River Berkshire for six years now. There have been very few issues and those that did crop up were resolved by either the dealer or the factory. I would purchase another Berkshire if they have a floor plan and features that I was looking for. The rig has been good all the way around for us.

A bit of background to Forest River may be helpful. The Company was in bad shape after the downturn in 2008. It looked like it might close up completely. In stepped Warren Buffet and his Berkshire Hathaway Company. Now the Company is healthy and doing well with a much better reputation than what it had prior to the slowdown. You may want to check out the Forest River Owners' Group (FROG) for the experiences of others who own the Berkshires. As you may be able to guess, the origin of the model name is from the ownership of the Company.

As to buying used, yes you will avoid the heavy depreciation hit and the bugs MAY be worked out, but the odds are just as high that the gorgeous seldom used rig is a lemon that the seller can't wait to dump. Our only experience buying used almost got us killed when our used Class C lost all its brakes on I-75. No warranty can more than erase the depreciation savings so be aware that both routes have their advantages and disadvantages.