How many of us are there? Owners of Dodge based RV's?

[whiteknight001]

I'm new here, and curious.

How many of us in Class C own Dodge B300 incomplete
cab/chassis based RV's? I know two others- Steve aka
Ripsaw, with a 1977 Brougham, and Leroy aka 1978_Dodge
_Delta who owns a 440V8 powered sharp looking 1978
Delta RV. I would like to ask, and offer, help, idea
swapping and comparing notes on our particular RV's
which are based on the Dodge B300 van chassis.

Yeah, I know. These are low tech, podgy old RV's that
would be considered "entry level" for folks like me,
but I have a deep and abiding respect for the quality
of these old "monsters of the open road". And anyone
wanting to pick brains, joke about, share notes or just
brag about our old A- Dodge-io's are certainly welcome
to PM or email me. Between all of us we can form a real
good support group, and help each other with problems
we know we'll encounter with an older vehicle.

Sure. I'd love a new RV. But I'd rather have an older
one already paid for, and a lotta great memories. Call
me frugal, an old hippie, or whatever you will. I'm proud
of my old land yacht.

Mopar Madness Manifest in the flesh,

Mark aka White Knight

P.S. Mine's a '72. Is there an older one out there someone's
motorvating in? Maybe even a Travco? W/K

[MasterBoondocke]

Jarlaxle wrote:


I feel like I'm trying to get through to a 5-year old here...

The FACTORY closed chamber heads are inferior to the FACTORY open-chamber heads, which should be very obvious.

I have torn down two 440-3's, & both had rotators. However, not all motorhome 440's are "dash-threes".

600HP is no biggie on a 400 or 440 block. Heck, it's been done dozens of times. They're plenty strong.

I've never seen any Chrysler V8 block that couldn't safely take a .030" overbore (though seen a couple that couldn't go any more). IIRC (my engine book isn't handy), the minimum spec is .060" on the non-thrust side. Bigger is better, and a bigger bore means a bigger engine. Of course, sonic-checking ANY used block is a good idea.

A 413 & a 440 (and a 383RB, and a 426W) use the same water pumps & exhaust (other than, obviously, year-to-year & chassis differences).

The 440 does everything at least as well as the 413, & most things better.

The 5-year-old ...is the one that is throwing a hissy fit ...and posting totally wrong info.

Open chamber vs closed ?..... you say the OPEN is the best? wrongO again ....why then is the most prized iron head the 915 67 head? ...and the max wedge heads were ALSO closed chambered.

The 440-3's had valve-rotators? .... quote me from any factory service manual this fact.

You say a .060 cyl wall is "safe" ....not on any engine I have seen. People have junked-blocks with less than .100. Why THEN did they build the mega-block with .250 plus? ...and you say .060 is OK. A bigger bore is better? ... why are alot of the big inch factory motors now V-10's ? ....

ENGAGE your brain ...before typing please. The LIST of wrong info that you continue to post grows larger and longer with every strike of your key-board.

[MasterBoondocke]

RobinHoodRV wrote:
I don't know about others but I think this argument, and yes it is an argument, about which engine is superior should be put in another thread. This thread has survived since august of 2004 and I hope it continues but with this stupid battle between you guys I'm afraid the moderator will close this thread.

I really hope the moderator takes pity on us Dodge owners and doesn't close this thread and instead just deletes or moves the last so many posts about the 413 vs 440 engines.

If you prefer one over the other, great! Now, CAN we get back to what this thread was created for!!!!

:S :S :S

I have no beef with this guy ....he is just posting UNaccurate info. Which is totally wrong.

On edit ...... if he prefers (for whatever reason) the 440 ...that is fine. But my "argument" with him is the WRONG "tech" data he is posting.

He is almost saying(to carry it to an extreme) ... that the 440 is a 6 cylinder engine.

[Jarlaxle]

MasterBoondocker wrote:

Jarlaxle wrote:


The 440 heads are better. They have open chambers, hardened valve seats, better flow. The 440-3 has valve rotators.

As I have already pointed out, any 440 block is perfectly fine for ANY street engine. An unmodified 440 block will hold up to 6000+RPM & 600HP. Ditto for a 400 block...600HP is no problem. They're not as thick as the 383 or 440, but, well...it's not an issue. That, and throw a cut-down 413 or 440 crank in a 400 block for a nice 452 stroker...or offset-grind the crank to a BB Chevy rod bearing size for 474ci. The 400 has the largest bore of any Mopar big-block.

How, pray tell, is a 440 different from a 413 externally? They're both RB engines...other than possibly different balance weights (just use a zero-balance converter & B&M flexplate if it's a 440-3...regular 440 is internal-balance), they're the same.

The 440 heads ? ...which heads are for the 440 only ? There are NONE. .... and for 99.99% of the applications that apply to people HERE on rv.net the RV/Truck/Industrial heads are better. YES .. the regular B-engine heads have better flow ... but that is not needed in THIS application. There are very few people here that are that comcerned with operating an engine in the 5500-6500 rpm range. Most gas engine RV applications operate in the 2000 to 3000 range. The 440-3 has valve rotators? ... I have pulled-apart a dozen or so of these motors and NONE have had them. In which service manual does it say that they were installed on a 440-3 ?

You "point out" stuff that does not apply AGAIN to a typical RV application. The reason WHY Chrysler made the 413 was to build the best truck engine. The block is a TON better than any regular-production block ...with the exception of the Hemi block.

And to "point-out" some of the "MYTHS" of what you say about the "hi-performance" aspects of your posts. Opened chambered heads are better? ...why then are MOST aftermarket heads made in the closed chamber design? ANY 440 block is good for 6000+ and 600hp ? ..... you are dead-wrong. The block must be checked for proper cyl wall thickness. MOST 440 blocks are OK ... but your statement saying ALL ...is bad info. "Ditto on the 400 block" ? ..... is horrible info. A friend of mine just had a good 400 block checked and it had section of the block that would have had cyl wall thickness of less than .080 with a .030 overbore.

You state that the 400 block has the largest bore - as it is a GOOD thing .... it is NOT !

And then about your statement - concerning the 440 bolting-into in place of a 413 "with no modification". Again you prove that your Chrysler knowledge is lacking. The exhaust and cooling systems hookups need severe modifications.

I hope you know more about Ford school-buses than you do about Mopars.

I feel like I'm trying to get through to a 5-year old here...

The FACTORY closed chamber heads are inferior to the FACTORY open-chamber heads, which should be very obvious.

I have torn down two 440-3's, & both had rotators. However, not all motorhome 440's are "dash-threes".

600HP is no biggie on a 400 or 440 block. Heck, it's been done dozens of times. They're plenty strong.

I've never seen any Chrysler V8 block that couldn't safely take a .030" overbore (though seen a couple that couldn't go any more). IIRC (my engine book isn't handy), the minimum spec is .060" on the non-thrust side. Bigger is better, and a bigger bore means a bigger engine. Of course, sonic-checking ANY used block is a good idea.

A 413 & a 440 (and a 383RB, and a 426W) use the same water pumps & exhaust (other than, obviously, year-to-year & chassis differences).

The 440 does everything at least as well as the 413, & most things better.

[RobinHoodRV]

I don't know about others but I think this argument, and yes it is an argument, about which engine is superior should be put in another thread. This thread has survived since august of 2004 and I hope it continues but with this stupid battle between you guys I'm afraid the moderator will close this thread.

I really hope the moderator takes pity on us Dodge owners and doesn't close this thread and instead just deletes or moves the last so many posts about the 413 vs 440 engines.

If you prefer one over the other, great! Now, CAN we get back to what this thread was created for!!!!

:S :S :S

[MasterBoondocke]

Jarlaxle wrote:


The 440 heads are better. They have open chambers, hardened valve seats, better flow. The 440-3 has valve rotators.

As I have already pointed out, any 440 block is perfectly fine for ANY street engine. An unmodified 440 block will hold up to 6000+RPM & 600HP. Ditto for a 400 block...600HP is no problem. They're not as thick as the 383 or 440, but, well...it's not an issue. That, and throw a cut-down 413 or 440 crank in a 400 block for a nice 452 stroker...or offset-grind the crank to a BB Chevy rod bearing size for 474ci. The 400 has the largest bore of any Mopar big-block.

How, pray tell, is a 440 different from a 413 externally? They're both RB engines...other than possibly different balance weights (just use a zero-balance converter & B&M flexplate if it's a 440-3...regular 440 is internal-balance), they're the same.

The 440 heads ? ...which heads are for the 440 only ? There are NONE. .... and for 99.99% of the applications that apply to people HERE on rv.net the RV/Truck/Industrial heads are better. YES .. the regular B-engine heads have better flow ... but that is not needed in THIS application. There are very few people here that are that comcerned with operating an engine in the 5500-6500 rpm range. Most gas engine RV applications operate in the 2000 to 3000 range. The 440-3 has valve rotators? ... I have pulled-apart a dozen or so of these motors and NONE have had them. In which service manual does it say that they were installed on a 440-3 ?

You "point out" stuff that does not apply AGAIN to a typical RV application. The reason WHY Chrysler made the 413 was to build the best truck engine. The block is a TON better than any regular-production block ...with the exception of the Hemi block.

And to "point-out" some of the "MYTHS" of what you say about the "hi-performance" aspects of your posts. Opened chambered heads are better? ...why then are MOST aftermarket heads made in the closed chamber design? ANY 440 block is good for 6000+ and 600hp ? ..... you are dead-wrong. The block must be checked for proper cyl wall thickness. MOST 440 blocks are OK ... but your statement saying ALL ...is bad info. "Ditto on the 400 block" ? ..... is horrible info. A friend of mine just had a good 400 block checked and it had section of the block that would have had cyl wall thickness of less than .080 with a .030 overbore.

You state that the 400 block has the largest bore - as it is a GOOD thing .... it is NOT !

And then about your statement - concerning the 440 bolting-into in place of a 413 "with no modification". Again you prove that your Chrysler knowledge is lacking. The exhaust and cooling systems hookups need severe modifications.

I hope you know more about Ford school-buses than you do about Mopars.

[Jarlaxle]

MasterBoondocker wrote:

Jarlaxle wrote:
What is better? Let me count the ways...

More torque (displacement is torque).
Parts actually, you know, AVAILABLE. (Nobody makes 413 pistons anymore.)
Better heads.
Most had a ThermoQuad from the factory, saving the trouble of changing over.

Crank is a wash, unless it's a 440-3, which uses the 6-pack crank & rods. A 440 block (any 440 block, from the 60's to 1978) is plenty strong for any street engine. Give me a 440 over a 413, every application, every time, no exceptions. Heck, I'd rather have a 400 than a 413.

And yes, shrouding (or clearance, on some aftermarket heads) IS a factor with big-valve heads on a 413's smaller bore. The best thing about a 413 is you can sell it on eBay and bolt in a 440 with no other modifications. There is no Earthly reason to use a smaller-displacement engine with identical packaging.

You are WRONG ...in so many ways. And WHERE in the heck do you get your info ? .....

No pistons ? .... there are many sets of NEW pistons available.

Better heads ? .. the 413 ? --- YES. They are MUCH better heads for the RV application. ...... better cooling capacity, valve size and quality, seats, angled plugs, valve rotators - ETC. The 440 head does not hold a candle to it... PERIOD.

The TQ carb ... it is a bolt-on deal.

The normal 440 block ? ... is in no way comparable to a 413. The 413 is a TRUCK block -- compared to a 440 "car" block ? ....what have you been smokin' ? You would rather have a 400(that are famous for thin-wall-blocks) to a 413 ? ...THIS just SHOWS how much you know about Mopars.

And you can just BOLT-IN a 440 ? ... in a 413 RV application ?? .... WrongO again Ford guy !

STICK with your Ford school-bus...we are talking Mopars here.

The 440 heads are better. They have open chambers, hardened valve seats, better flow. The 440-3 has valve rotators.

As I have already pointed out, any 440 block is perfectly fine for ANY street engine. An unmodified 440 block will hold up to 6000+RPM & 600HP. Ditto for a 400 block...600HP is no problem. They're not as thick as the 383 or 440, but, well...it's not an issue. That, and throw a cut-down 413 or 440 crank in a 400 block for a nice 452 stroker...or offset-grind the crank to a BB Chevy rod bearing size for 474ci. The 400 has the largest bore of any Mopar big-block.

How, pray tell, is a 440 different from a 413 externally? They're both RB engines...other than possibly different balance weights (just use a zero-balance converter & B&M flexplate if it's a 440-3...regular 440 is internal-balance), they're the same.

[MasterBoondocke]

timmac wrote:
So why did Mopar bag the 413,,, and the 440 is a better truck/rv motor..

WHY do you avoid the Q's at hand ?

But I will answer YOUR Q..... the 440 was a way CHEAPER motor to build ....by a bunch.

And in NO WAY is the 440 a better RV/truck motor.

[timmac]

So why did Mopar bag the 413,,, and the 440 is a better truck/rv motor..

[MasterBoondocke]

WhatEVER happened to the Vegas BigShooters ? ....... going home to Mama ?

he-he-he ....... so your Ford Escort is faster than that 440 of yours?

[timmac]

NAH that would be like taking candy from a kid betting with your 413,, you will have better luck racing with a ford escort..

[MasterBoondocke]

Again I say ..... Your blow-by special with worn-out-heads needs some severe Rx.

Your oil-burner needs help badly. My worn-out 2.5 in my Caravan gets 2500 miles per quart !

Run circles ? .... PUT your money where your MOUTH is !

[timmac]

BS injected?? I thought that was your TS and TQ system that does that........No my heads are not wore out when I posted earlier that it might need a head rebuild soon,, it just burns thru a quart of oil every 750-850 miles and thinking of a head rebuild might slow this down,, however it runs smooth and strong and will run circles around your 413....:B

[MasterBoondocke]

BS injected ...maybe !

Your blow-by special with worn-out-heads needs some severe Rx.

[timmac]

Oh my stars the 440-413 wars again... however my fuel inject 440 beats all..

[MasterBoondocke]

Jarlaxle wrote:
What is better? Let me count the ways...

More torque (displacement is torque).
Parts actually, you know, AVAILABLE. (Nobody makes 413 pistons anymore.)
Better heads.
Most had a ThermoQuad from the factory, saving the trouble of changing over.

Crank is a wash, unless it's a 440-3, which uses the 6-pack crank & rods. A 440 block (any 440 block, from the 60's to 1978) is plenty strong for any street engine. Give me a 440 over a 413, every application, every time, no exceptions. Heck, I'd rather have a 400 than a 413.

And yes, shrouding (or clearance, on some aftermarket heads) IS a factor with big-valve heads on a 413's smaller bore. The best thing about a 413 is you can sell it on eBay and bolt in a 440 with no other modifications. There is no Earthly reason to use a smaller-displacement engine with identical packaging.

You are WRONG ...in so many ways. And WHERE in the heck do you get your info ? .....

No pistons ? .... there are many sets of NEW pistons available.

Better heads ? .. the 413 ? --- YES. They are MUCH better heads for the RV application. ...... better cooling capacity, valve size and quality, seats, angled plugs, valve rotators - ETC. The 440 head does not hold a candle to it... PERIOD.

The TQ carb ... it is a bolt-on deal.

The normal 440 block ? ... is in no way comparable to a 413. The 413 is a TRUCK block -- compared to a 440 "car" block ? ....what have you been smokin' ? You would rather have a 400(that are famous for thin-wall-blocks) to a 413 ? ...THIS just SHOWS how much you know about Mopars.

And you can just BOLT-IN a 440 ? ... in a 413 RV application ?? .... WrongO again Ford guy !

STICK with your Ford school-bus .... we are talking Mopars here.