Is a Mercedes a good engine for a DP?

[donnyB7]

Looking at a DP with a 400 HP MBE engine. Not sure I have seen a DP that didn't have a Cummins engine. Is the MBE a good one? Are there any strange quirks with it?

[JaxDad]

moisheh wrote:
JAX: I do not nor have I ever been in the business of selling RV's.

Moisheh

I never said you were ‘in the business’ of doing it, but in a post a few years back about importing US units into Canada you commented;

“I would gladly help as over the years I have imported: Cars, Class 5 trucks and many RV's.”

Then just a year ago you said “I have sold all my units in Canada. They were all originally US units. All private sales.”

So by your own admission you have imported ‘many’ RV’s and then sold them. Business or personal doesn’t change the facts or the legalities of it.

[11178adm]

JaxDad the MBE4000 and the DD13 are TOTALY different engines. The 4000 has 6 individual heads, camshaft in the block. 6 electronic unit pumps with a line going to the injectors. the DD13 and the larger DD15 have a single cylinder head with double overhead cams and a common rail high pressure fuel system and electronic injectors in the head. the early MBEs had a lot of fuel line breakage problems that was for the most part solved with new fuel line with dampeners and new tightening procedures, they also had up to the last units built quite a lot of head gasket problems and block erosion under the heads and liner sealing issues. this engine is expensive to repair and parts are getting harder to find, the last production was 2009 so IMHO this is a buyer beware issue

[moisheh]

WRONG: Detroitspent more than 4 years developing the DD series. It is an entirely new engine designed by DMB in the USA, Japan and Germany. Development costs were around 1 Billion dollars. It was designed to meet today's emission standards where as many other engines were modified to be emission correct. The DD13,15 and 16 are amazing. I have driven OTR trucks with all 3 power plants. They are amazing. Too bad they are not used in MH's. The DD16 is the most powerful truck I have ever driven but a pig on fuel. The DD13 gives good fuel mileage. None of these engines resemble the MBE engine. They are built in Japan, Germany and the USA. I was at the Fleetwood factory when the MBE engine was being used. They were so bad that FW had a bunch of chassis outside waiting to be delivered to FL so the engine could be changed to a Cummins. Almost as bad as the Navistar fiasco! But 3ven Cummins has had their share of problems. Bad blocks, wrist pin trouble and horrible EGR systems. Fortunately not many RV'rs encounter those problems. But they do exist. JAX: I do not nor have I ever been in the business of selling RV's.

Moisheh

[JaxDad]

I’m not an kargumentative guy’ but when I do disagree, it’s because I have facts to back up my statements and don’t base my position on ‘but everyone else is doing it’. Speaking of twisted logic, are you still selling illegal US imported motor homes in Manitoba and refusing to acknowledge the posted citations to the law?

What I had meant to say earlier was that you couldn’t get a new 5.9 ISB, they changed it to make some improvements and to meet newer tougher emissions.

The MBE series was the same, they made improvements and changes to meet newer emission standards and it’s now a DD13.

If you actually read about the problems that occurred with the MBE 4000 engines you will find that very few are anything but errors made by mechanics and drivers. Make no mistake, this was NOT a ‘new’ engine when it was new to North America, it had been around in Europe and elsewhere for a very long time and was well liked and had an excellent reputation.

But just like anything else it’s the unhappy folks that make posts not the very pleased ones, but even then in the threads where people are slamming the engine there are the people that pop up saying they have lots of them and have run them for a long time trouble free.

[moisheh]

But Jax is an argumentative guy who never gives up. Twisted logic.

Moisheh

[Bruce_Brown]

^^^ Not accurate. The Cummins ISB is alive and well. Today's generation is a 6.7L, but it's still an ISB.

[JaxDad]

They didn’t just make MBE’s for just one year, nobody said they still make them either.

You can’t buy a brand new vehicle with an ISB in it either. In fact, by that logic, an ISB must have been a bad design.... they stopped making them! LOL.

I see people who could break an anvil with a rubber hammer, does that mean those anvils are poorly made?

As a mechanic friend of mine likes to say, often times stuff that breaks is due to a mechanic defect, a “loose nut behind the wheel”.

Of course people are lined up to take perfectly good working engines to repair shops. LMAO.

Oh wait, maybe repair shops only see broken trucks, that must mean that 100% of trucks that show up at repair shops are poorly built?

[moisheh]

JB Hunt would have had trouble ordering more as FL stopped putting the MNE engine in over the road trucks. ASk any repair shop and they will tell you they are piece of..... But if you want to listen to the few supporting posts go ahead at your own risk. make sure they deduct at least $10,000 to cover repairs. BTW: The model installed in RV's does not meet emission standards. Maybe you should ask the supporters why so few MBE's were ever used in RV's??

Moisheh

[bullydogs1]

The one engine no one brought up here is the Navistar engine that was supposed to meet emissions without the DEF...Monaco/Hr used them when Navistar got them at the bankruptcy for a couple of years before it was discovered that the engine did not meet the standards. Navistar then bailed out of the Motorhome business by selling it to ARG which is now REV group and that was the end of the roadmaster chassis and some people had issues with them. Now there was a real Edsel of an engine which not only is harder to find a qualified service center if you have one, but if you are trying to sell one , the minute people find out it is not a Cummins run for the hills. Now there's a unit to run from, and I feel for the many people that got one from 2012 to 2014...when the info was discovered, Navistar went back to Cummins but at that point this Titanic had already hit the iceberg.

[JaxDad]

We have an MBE engine in an older Freightliner straight truck, it’s a single axle with 10 speed.

It’s been flawless for 800k and it’s probav one of if not the best in its class for this type of application. It has a very flat power band from 1,000 to 2,000 rpm and the exhaust braking system is outstanding. It’s nearly silent and far more powerful than a Jacobs system since it’s actually designed right into the construction of the engine (a 5th valve in each head) and the turbo (a special sliding ring valve). It can be used in any residential area where you can’t use a Jake because of the noise.

When they first came out people like J.B. Hunt bought thousands of them, when it was time to replace them they bought more of them. That tells me the unreliability stories and lack popularity issues are another ‘Ford Pinto’ story.

UCLA law professor Gary T. Schwartz, in a Rutgers Law Review article, studied the fatality rates of the Pinto and several other small cars of the time period. He concluded that the Pinto was approximately even with the AMC Gremlin, Chevrolet Vega, and Datsun 510. It was significantly better than the Datsun 1200/210, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

So don’t drive an MBE engined MH through the woods to Grandmas house, the big bad wolf will eat you!

[Mile_High]

Well there you have it - Combines, OTR trucks, Super C Motorhomes, and even a Ferry! With some stretch of the imagination I'm sure you can find something in common with a DP beyond the fact they all use diesel fuel
🙂

[tropical36]

The old series 60 Detroit was probably one of the best engines and always thought that this version was still being produced by MB and since Detroit Diesel is now owned by German Daimler AG for over the road applications.
Most sure it's more complicated than that and with how much of the old Detroit is incorporated into the modern MB line.
There's still a lot of Detroit's running around out there in some of the higher end Motorhomes, so......

[Gonzo42]

Here's an idea. Find a unit you like (cheap) and re-engine it. Probably need the transmission along with it.

Along with that, remodel to suit you.

[4x4ord]

The biggest combine made is a Lexion 780. Its little brother is the 760. The only difference from one machine to the other is the engine. The smaller machine uses a Cat C13 (12.5 liter) engine and the larger machine uses a Mercedes 473 (15.6 liter engine). In North America the Cat powered machine is more popular but the Mercedes is more fuel efficient. I don't think one is more reliable than the other but in NA people feel more confident running the Cat.