Life is full of compromise...

[davelinde]

I've been reading a bit here and also made a post in the general area to see who I might chat up in the forums to get ideas. But as I ponder and google and skim I think my curiosity comes down to wondering what kind of compromises come with a class C solution vs my prior rigs. As I noted in the other post, our RV history has mapped our lives, next plan is to use an RV for an extended time travelling the US as empty-nesters.

So here are the compromises I see...

Range... our first rig had a 300 mile range and that is frankly annoying - so I over-compensated and the next rig (HDT getting 9 with 200 gallons of diesel) could do 1800 -- what can I expect in a C with a small 4 down tow behind?

Storage space - our first rig quickly put on (literally) a ton of stuff and approached over weight ratings quickly. Our second rig had storage to spare for tools and toys. I can live with less of both but would like to have compressed air, basic repair tools, a pair of bicycles, golf clubs, maybe a smoker... at least a nice grill - will I make GVWR?

Living space - we've always been able to sleep 6 to 8 comfortably but without the kids (friends... cousins etc) along now we only need to do 2 - but can we do 4 (or 6) in a pinch?

Amenities - our first rig was basic and for our second we added the genset, big tanks, 3 TV's, sound system, ice maker, second fridge, screen porch... For a smaller rig I can give all of that up I think actually - but in the last decade I think RV have new amenities I may covet? What is the must have bling?

Setup - both our rigs were labor intensive to site and setup. We are done with leveling manually... I'm thinking all class C will anchor and level with a push button? Plug in electric and decide about water/sewer later? We are assuming a 4 down tow behind for ease of local transport and ease to connect/disconnect the vehicle. I think if we can do that we don't miss the towable setup?

Comfort/ease of travel. With the 5er and 3/4 ton it was work to drive and nothing in the cab. When we had the HDT our cab had space to stand up, a coffee maker, fridge and was as easy to drive as set the cruise, engage the jake brake and let her go. While my wife refused to drive it, I found the HDT a joy. With a C I guess we have fridge and coffee close. DW says she will drive it. But do the new rigs have cruise with following distance and lane assist? Will a C get pushed around the rode like my pickup? I'm guessing I'll never get the ride and handling I had in the HDT?

Drivetrains... I see the Chevy/Ford chassis discussions here and I guess there is some religion behind that? I've had bad luck with Fords, I've never paid the premium to get a Chevy, I still have my first Dodge/Cummins and I've loved both my diesels (the Cummins and the VED12). What are the drivetrain choices we all love here?

and finally... cost. My 04 Dodge cost me 35K and I still have it - it was a bargain. I don't remember what our Jayco 5er cost (it was in the teens) but I do remember we were able to sell it at 3 years old for only a few grand less than we paid. The Volvo HDT was a splurge at another 35K and we did not sell it for anything near that later. Same with the toy hauler - it was closer to 40K and did NOT hold value. We have flexibility to spend what makes sense so I wonder what price points I should expect for an RV I'll enjoy for 3 to 5 years and what I can expect in maintenance and retained value when we sell it.

[IAMICHABOD]

davelinde wrote:
A quick tack on to my thread... Our vehicles are a bit older and the newer cars are basic. This week I rented a new car with some features I kind of like... the cruise control has both a speed and following distance setting and will basically put itself in traffic and keep itself there. It also warns about rear cross traffic when I put it in reverse and warns about blind spot traffic when I signal to change lanes.

It got me wondering if the newer C's had these kind of options too?

They may be coming,I have seen Former Rentals that have rear cross traffic warning when in reverse.

[DrewE]

I think Ford is upgrading the dash systems in the E series chassis this year or next year, so in a couple of years some of these sorts of things may start appearing--at least adaptive cruise control. Rear cross traffic presumably relies on a backup camera, which my not be integrated into many class C's (at least with the factory systems); similarly I don't know if the sensors needed for blind spot monitoring would be included. If you don't have convex mirrors, adding a stick-on one is a tremendous help in checking blind spots in ajacent lanes.

The Ford E series is not generally at the cutting edge of vehicle technology; things take awhile to trickle down there. My '98 lacks a good bit of advanced vehicle technology, such as the dash mounted glove box and the digital odometer display, but it does get me where I want to go reliably and in reasonable comfort.

[davelinde]

A quick tack on to my thread... Our vehicles are a bit older and the newer cars are basic. This week I rented a new car with some features I kind of like... the cruise control has both a speed and following distance setting and will basically put itself in traffic and keep itself there. It also warns about rear cross traffic when I put it in reverse and warns about blind spot traffic when I signal to change lanes.

It got me wondering if the newer C's had these kind of options too?

[ron_dittmer]

Hi Dave and Tammy,

Significant-downsizing is always a major adjustment. You will compromise in every category from a physical perspective. But as you are hoping for, going small and more simplistic has all it's own advantages. Considering a 25 foot Sprinter-based rig is going quite small. The good news is that many small floor plans are offered. Your biggest compromise will be sleeping arrangements. If you must sleep together in a walk-around bed, then there are just a few available floor plans to choose from. They come in a rear slide-out or side slide-out Going a bit longer than a Sprinter can offer, say around 26 feet, I think you will find more choices, especially if sleeping separately, each in your own single bed.

I am partial to the Phoenix Cruiser brand we have for the price/quality ratio, the rig we have HERE, owned since 2007. I am also fond of the capability/cost/maintenance ratio the E-series has which gets some criticisms over confinement and noise at high rpm. Be sure to compare all the pros to the cons between chassis choices and the unique benefits of each fuel type, gasoline and diesel. As you noticed, a Sprinter diesel typically is outfitted with a propane generator. Another Sprinter deficiency is idling for hours at a time has severe consequences. Then adding the cost of Sprinter maintenance and limited service centers. But the Sprinter is more tamed and comfortable.

CLICK HERE to look at all the various Phoenix Cruiser floor plans, many less than 26 feet. Model 2351D offers a double bed in a slideout. I feel the over-all length of 24'-11" is a whole lot of "capable" motor home in as small of a package possible without sacrificing anything. Phoenix offers optional auto-levelers and much much more.

[AJR]

I have had two rigs that were close to impervious to crosswinds and big trucks going by. The first was a F250 6.0 PSD pulling an Arctic Fox 22H w/Reese W/D & friction sway bar.

The second is my current class C, see sig. The stock Chevy 4500 chassis with 47k miles on it does not get antsy until the crosswind is over 30mph. Another plus is no V10 engine noise.

Outside storage gets good at around 26’ to 28’ and up of coach length depending on floorplan. My last class C & this one have about 100cuft of storage in the back. If you get a class C with an overhead bed. That can be used for inside storage also, I did. My current rig has an entertainment center over the cab. But there is a surprising amount of room behind the TV that swings up & out of the way. The tow vehicle can carry the bicycles.

As far as drivetrain religion goes. I think it is more experience than religion. Being a Ford guy I like the V10 if you can put up with the noise and dog house. I almost did not even look at my current rig because it is Chevy based. But it has the kitchen counter space I wanted. So I did a long test drive and bought it. Also my mechanic likes the engine. Oh, I have learned to buy use RV’s.

I top off the LP every spring. I do not travel when it is near freezing out. I only turn on the water heater in the morning for a shower and then turn it off. The water stays hot all day. I also use electric space heaters to supplement the furnace.

Decisions, decisions, decisions…. Hope the above helps with yours.

[Bordercollie]

We started out tent camping then got a tired VW Westphalia van, then a Dodge Van camper conversion, then an old Higgins Delta "C" and finally our 2004 Tioga 26Q "C". For some time we have been content to just unfurl the awning and relax out doors. You don't need a rolling hotel, with fake fire place, etc., etc., like on those TV shows to enjoy the hobby/lifestyle. Making a wood fire and cooking bacon and eggs for breakfast, reading a good book, playing my guitar, and later grilling chicken parts for dinner and looking at the night sky with my cheap telescope is my current vision of adult motorhome camping.

[Dusty_R]

If I remember right the gauge on the tank it self is not adjustable, but I think that the gauge inside the mh is adjustable.

Dusty

[DrewE]

camperdave wrote:

Not only that, but there's only one tank unlike a typical towable. So when you're out, you're out. And of course propane gauges are not exactly accurate... Mine at least shows empty when there's still at least a 1/4 tank (usable) left. I end up filling up before I need to, but without a changeover valve and second tank I'm not sure what else to do about it. :?

The gauge on the propane tank itself should be more accurate than that (it's a mechanical float in the tank), though it's often rather obscured by the sender for the display inside the motorhome, and sometimes is not in a very visible location at all.

[camperdave]

davelinde wrote:

One thing that does seem low is the amount of propane spec'd for a lot of rigs, and it seems especially odd for those with propane gensets. I'll need to dig into that more.

Not only that, but there's only one tank unlike a typical towable. So when you're out, you're out. And of course propane gauges are not exactly accurate... Mine at least shows empty when there's still at least a 1/4 tank (usable) left. I end up filling up before I need to, but without a changeover valve and second tank I'm not sure what else to do about it. :?

[RobertRyan]

PartyOf Five wrote:
x2 Benz - I would seriously look at how much you can do without, and all the features the MB chassis offers vs. the well-worn domestics. Smaller will be easier as cities get bigger, and as we all age...

Having driven a E450 in the US could not agree more. Although we have moved to the IVECO Daily Chassis here, that has positive aspects of both the Sprinter and E450

[davelinde]

Thanks all for feeding me thoughts, facts and opinion on this - it is helping me get my mind around this a bit. I will need to work to get comfy with the idea of a Ford V10... Having had a couple diesel motors I loved that could take me some time.

For the specs... I was assuming smaller tanks and I am confident we can live with that. The huge capacity of the hauler was always way more than we ever needed. One thing that does seem low is the amount of propane spec'd for a lot of rigs, and it seems especially odd for those with propane gensets. I'll need to dig into that more.

[Desert_Captain]

We have had our 24' C for 6+ years and 51,000+ trouble free miles from coast to coast and all over the west. I typically tow a 10' {14' overall} cargo trailer hauling either my Indian motorcycle or our Polaris RZR. It is a Ford E-350 with the 6.8L V-10 with a 5 speed Torque Shift trans and a 4:10 rear axle. We have the 55 gallon tank and have averaged 9.5 mpg not towing, 9 towing the bike and 8.5 towing the RZR all while cruising at 60 - 65 {average about 63}.

I do not have any slides, electric steps or levelers and would never own a coach with any of them. Too many problems, too expensive and too heavy all in search of a solution for which there is no known problem {the government does this a lot}.

I carry lots of tools and toys and have not even come close to using all of the available storage. Having the extra space in the trailer helps a lot. We usually run near or even at our GVWR of 11,500 and the ride and handling are excellent.

I agree that having the built in 4KW generator is essential. Used to run a pair of Honda 2,000's when we had our 22' TT and it was such a PITA we often just did without AC.

We used to have a large dog but now it is just my bride and I. While we can easily accommodate a guest or two 99 per cent of the time it is just the two of us. With a great floor plan, 101" wide with 7' of headroom throughout the coach our 24 footer is one of the roomiest out there.

As always... Opinions and YMMV.

:C

[mleekamp]

DutchmenSport wrote:

mleekamp wrote:
...

1. We now have 2 dogs, and the truck was crowded with mom, dad, kid 1, kid 2, dog 1, dog 2. [COLOR=]With the C, they are in a kennel, and sit above me in the overhang for "safety", not roaming around rig. ...

You made me laugh on that one! That must be quite a site! Mom, kid 1, kid 2, dog 1, dog 2 all in a kennel in the over-head! . ... um 1 kennel up there or 5 of them? :B

That's right -- Dad is driving, ya'll keep quiet in your kennel and when we get there, I'll let you out! :W

[camperdave]

davelinde wrote:

Range... our first rig had a 300 mile range and that is frankly annoying - so I over-compensated and the next rig (HDT getting 9 with 200 gallons of diesel) could do 1800 -- what can I expect in a C with a small 4 down tow behind?

Ford has a 55 gallon tank. Generator cuts out at 1/4 tank, so personally I really try to never get close to that. I start looking at 200 miles, fill by 250. Can easily to 300+ but I'll be getting down around 1/4 tank. My recent 2500 mile trip with no toad (30' @ ~13k pounds) I averaged 7.77mpg.

davelinde wrote:
Storage space - our first rig quickly put on (literally) a ton of stuff and approached over weight ratings quickly. Our second rig had storage to spare for tools and toys. I can live with less of both but would like to have compressed air, basic repair tools, a pair of bicycles, golf clubs, maybe a smoker... at least a nice grill - will I make GVWR?

Very rig dependent. I've got 30' with no slides, and a very large rear storage area. Plus a large under bed area inside where I keep extra water and my tools. Full of stuff (family of 4 plus dog) I'm comfortably under GVWR and under both axle weights.

davelinde wrote:
Amenities - our first rig was basic and for our second we added the genset, big tanks, 3 TV's, sound system, ice maker, second fridge, screen porch... For a smaller rig I can give all of that up I think actually - but in the last decade I think RV have new amenities I may covet? What is the must have bling?

Can't help you there. My rig is older with no 'fluff'. I don't even have a TV. But I will say the onboard genset is a game changer. A/C and microwave anytime we want.

davelinde wrote:
Setup - both our rigs were labor intensive to site and setup. We are done with leveling manually... I'm thinking all class C will anchor and level with a push button? Plug in electric and decide about water/sewer later? We are assuming a 4 down tow behind for ease of local transport and ease to connect/disconnect the vehicle. I think if we can do that we don't miss the towable setup?

Levelers are an option. Can be installed on any unit for the most part, but at extra cost of course. I don't have them, got a quote of around $4k to have them installed. Decided lego's aren't so bad lol. To the other stuff, power is all we usually plug into when arriving, the water/sewer is optional as needed. I don't have a toad, but we travel more than camp these days so it wouldn't really make a difference for us. Maybe in a few years, I dunno.

davelinde wrote:
Comfort/ease of travel. With the 5er and 3/4 ton it was work to drive and nothing in the cab. When we had the HDT our cab had space to stand up, a coffee maker, fridge and was as easy to drive as set the cruise, engage the jake brake and let her go. While my wife refused to drive it, I found the HDT a joy. With a C I guess we have fridge and coffee close. DW says she will drive it. But do the new rigs have cruise with following distance and lane assist? Will a C get pushed around the rode like my pickup? I'm guessing I'll never get the ride and handling I had in the HDT?

Access to the house while driving was the #1 reason we moved from a TT to a motorhome last year. I don't regret it one bit. The motorhome is not going to drive as well as an HDT. Probably not as well as your pickup. They are box trucks, and handle like them lol. I don't think any of the C's have lane assist or adaptive cruise control, but am not sure about that. I'm sure it's on the way at some point.

No help on drivetrains or cost, I like the Ford V10 and buy everything well used...