Making the change from diesel back to gas 2014 Itasca

[ocexpress]

Been quite awhile since visiting here on the forum.
I am considering trading the 97 American tradition in for a 2014 35B' Itasca Sunland. Still has the heavier wheel base as opposed to the smaller coach. The smaller coaches seem too light to me.
My question is whether or not the Itasca will pull the grade up the California grapevine. It has the Ford v10.
I have never had much success getting over that grapevine any faster than 35mph in my diesel towing my small 12' trailer. That coupled with the coach carrying too many memories in the loss of my husband dieseldave. Time has came to move on.

I value your input and have not taken delivery of the 2014 Itasca yet. It is a beautiful coach but want to make sure it has the power needed to pull those 6% grades?
Input appreciated.

[vjstangelo]

We own a 2012 Winnebago 32K and pull a CRV road. Even on the worst grades we've encountered never has the speed dropped below 50 MPH. The key isn't the hp but the gearing. The winny has the 5 speed torqshift, which blows away my older 2005 Excursion with the 4R100 4 speed.

WRT engine noise, Winny does a great job with sound insulation and even at 4000 rpm, the noise is not to the point my wife and I can't converse in a normal tone of voice. At cruising speed, quiet as a mouse.

[Jarlaxle]

gutfelt wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
Engine torque vs HP is hugely misunderstood. A gasonline engine capable of making 500 lb ft of torque @ 3200 rpm will absolutely outpull a diesel engine making 800 lb ft of torque at 1600 rpm. It's not that complicated.

Think of a diesel equipped truck traveling 40 mph with the rear axle turning 400 rpm. When the diesel is delivering its maximum torque on the crankshaft of 800 lb ft at 1600 rpm the torque on the rear axle at 400 rpm will be 3200 lb ft.

The gasoline equipped truck will be in a much lower gear to have the engine running at 3200 rpm while its rear axle is turning 400 rpm. It would be capable of putting 4000 lb ft of torque on the rear axle.

So yes torque is what gets the job done but torque has to be measured and compared on the rear axle to mean anything.

Ok now in the real world take a 425HP 1250 lb torque engine @1600
will your gas engine/torque example still out pull mine?
No it wont even come close and that's why you don't see 360HP ford V10 engines used in a 39-45foot Pusher motor homes that all have diesels the weight is too much for poor/low torque gas engines

Actually (sound of hanging curveball getting launched into the third deck) Ford puts the gas V10 in 33,000lb GVWR F750 medium duty trucks.

[Jarlaxle]

Bruce Brown wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

gutfelt wrote:

I have a 40 ft 425HP 1250ft torque that weighs around 35k loaded
I guarantee you a 360HP ford V10 36-38 ft unit loaded will suck on a long grade compared to mine

Did you drink the Kool-Aid?

Let’s stick with facts and science and save the bragging for the coffee shop parking lot.

A 35k unit with 425 hp and 1250 lb ft of torque is 82.3 pounds per horsepower and 28 pounds per ft. lb. of torque.

A 16k unit with a 362 hp and 457 ft. lb. of torque is 44.2 pounds per horsepower and 35 pounds per ft.lb. of torque.

So the V10 coach has, proportionately, 86% MORE horsepower and only 20% less torque.

I doubt most sane people would consider (per pound of vehicle) having nearly DOUBLE the horsepower with only 20% less torque to “suck” in any way shape or form.

Just as with many other gasser owners, several just in this one thread alone, I routinely pass DP’s on long grades,

It seems your ‘guarantee’ isn’t worth much, sort of like a used car salesman’s promises.

I'll skip the math and go to actual ownership. Hills that used to bring our Dutchstar gasser to it's knees our Cat powered (330/860) Kountry Star pulled with relative ease.

Our Cummins powered Kountry Star (400/1200) pulls those same hills without downshifting.

An object in motion tends to stay in motion. HP sells stuff, torque gets the job done.

Both have their place. Having owned both I can say I much prefer the low RPM, broad, flat torque a diesel produces. It simply can't be compared to a non-boosted gasser. (The Ford Ecoboost gassers make good power at a low RPM).

With that said, they make both for a reason.

How old was your Dutch Star and which engine did it have? How much power did it really have? Be honest.

[Jarlaxle]

gutfelt wrote:

Gjac wrote:

gutfelt wrote:

Gjac wrote:
Sorry to hear about the loss of your husband and figuring this stuff out can be daunting. I would suspect that your older DP is probably close to twice what the gas MH weighs. Also compare the HP of your older DP to the 362HP V-10. HP/wt is what will determine your performance. A simple test is to see how long it takes your DP to go from 40-60 MPH on a flat and then test the Gas MH the same way. If the gas MH is quicker and I would suspect it would be you will also be quicker on the hills. Good Luck on finding the right MH for you.

except on the hills the large diesel because of torque will move the load up the hill a lot easier so not true that if gas faster on flat ground it then will be faster on hills

A large diesel will move the load up the hill a lot easier because of the torque at much lower rpms while the gas MH makes its max HP at much higher rpms and it seems to be working a lot harder but that is in the design. If two Mhs are traveling at 40 MPH and hit the hill at the same the faster one on the flat will get to the top quicker. Try it you will see. I travel with several friends with DP's one is A 1998 38 FT Dutch star with 330 HP and weights 32k lbs the other is a 2013 Phaeton with 360 HP mine is only 300 HP but weighs 15k lbs less than half their weight. I always pass both on long hills because my performance on the flat is faster. Don't want to start a Diesel vs Gas debate just trying to help the Op with her decision.

I have a 40 ft 425HP 1250ft torque that weighs around 35k loaded
I guarantee you a 360HP ford V10 36-38 ft unit loaded will suck on a long grade compared to mine

Naah. It will be about 12,000lbs lighter, which means it has a better power to weight ratio.

[theoldwizard1]

4x4ord wrote:
The V10 makes more peak horse power than the diesel in your American Tradition. It really should pull that 22000 lb Itasca up a 6% grade at 45 mph. It needs to be screaming pretty good to do it though....the peak hp is at 4750 rpm.

This scares a lot of people, but it is perfectly safe, for a "limited" amount of time.

The important thing is watch the coolant temperature gauge and possibly have a transmission oil temperature gauge installed. If these get high, pull over as soon as possible and let the engine/transmission cool down.

Other than that, put you foot to the floor and don't be afraid to pick up a few MPH going downhill before the next uphill.

[theoldwizard1]

fortytwo wrote:
If your trailer puts you near the CGW rating you should have a transmission temperature gauge.

EXCELLENT suggestion !

[JaxDad]

As has been stated by several owners of gassers in the size of what the OP is contemplating, I'm sure she will have no issues.

The loss of probably 2 tons of rolling weight or more, and another axle's drag, if the trailer gets dropped in the conversion plus the additional ~60 to 90 horsepower gain should make for the little bit of torque lost.

[gutfelt]

Dutch_12078 wrote:
All I care about is that our old 2001 34' coach with its V-10 towing our 3500 lb toad pulls the 6% grade at Fancy Gap, VA and other hills holding its own with the rest of the traffic. Faster than some, slower than others. We haven't met a hill yet we couldn't get over though. Since the majority of our time, like nearly all RV'ers, is spent living in our RV, not driving or towing it, the floor plan was much more important to us than the how it gets down the road. All I ask for on that end is reliability, stability, and minimal maintenance costs.

I have to agree with you and back in 2011 the reason I went 425HP 40 diesel is we live in it for 5.5 months and needed house quality atmosphere, good power for rocky and cascade mountains etc ,stability
big one was quietness when powering through the mountain passes
just all the quality and comforts and heavy duty build one gets from
this type MH where gassers just don't meet those specs at all
but yes it was much much more $$ also

[Dog_Trainer]

RJL wrote:
A suggestion for the original poster. If she wants to go to a newer gasser I've read very good things about the 5 star tune for the Ford V-10 she'll have. I can't speak from experience yet, but I have been looking at it over and over again over the last 6 months or so. Usually when that happens I buy it.

I recently put the 5 star tune in my v-10 maade a very pleasant difference in shifting and I can feel the power difference. MPG stayed about the same.

[Dutch_12078]

All I care about is that our old 2001 34' coach with its V-10 towing our 3500 lb toad pulls the 6% grade at Fancy Gap, VA and other hills holding its own with the rest of the traffic. Faster than some, slower than others. We haven't met a hill yet we couldn't get over though. Since the majority of our time, like nearly all RV'ers, is spent living in our RV, not driving or towing it, the floor plan was much more important to us than the how it gets down the road. All I ask for on that end is reliability, stability, and minimal maintenance costs.

[RedJeep]

I've done the grapevine many times with my 2008 35' v10 f53. I tow a nearly 5k pound land rover discovery. No problem. I pass some trucks depending on how the traffic is. Typically settle out about 40 mph. I'm very happy with the v10.

[Oilman]

4x4ord wrote:

Bruce Brown wrote:

4x4ord wrote:



Torque just seems to confuse people. Torque without rpm is useless and torque with rpm is power. Like you mentioned: my example of the lower torque engine putting more torque to the rear axle wasn't fair because the lower torque engine was more powerful.....that is the point power is what matters.

The peak torque figure in conjunction with rpm (which equates to power) and peak Hp describe an engine's pulling and driving characteristics.

Torque doesn't confuse me even a little. Part of my real job is spec'ing in motors and gear boxes for industrial applications. Make a mistake on a $40,000 gearbox and shut a plant down that charges off downtime by the minute and I'd better have my information straight.

As far as the "torque without rpm" statement, that's where a diesel shines. It doesn't have much of a torque curve, it's more of a torque line. A N/A gasser may make decent peak torque, but get even a few 100 RPMs away from that peak and watch it drop to it's knees.

The new generation of boosted gassers (Ford's Ecoboost, for example) do offer a very wide torque band at a very low RPM, kind of diesel like, actually.

The point is that an engine that produces 400 lbft of torque may or may not be capable of pulling anything. 400 lb ft of torque means absolutely nothing without knowing an rpm.

An engine that makes 400 rear wheel HP can be geared to move a 22,000 lb rv up an 8% grade at about 60 mph. It doesn't matter whether that HP is coming from diesel, gasoline or krypton.

After reading this hp vs torque argument for years you point makes total sense.

My 1 inch impact gun can produce 1000 lbs of torque. So can a Briggs and Stratton geared properly. Neither one will move a motorhome. I would agree tourque without rpm is useless. There is more to it then just a number.

[RJL]

A suggestion for the original poster. If she wants to go to a newer gasser I've read very good things about the 5 star tune for the Ford V-10 she'll have. I can't speak from experience yet, but I have been looking at it over and over again over the last 6 months or so. Usually when that happens I buy it.

[4x4ord]

Bruce Brown wrote:

4x4ord wrote:



Torque just seems to confuse people. Torque without rpm is useless and torque with rpm is power. Like you mentioned: my example of the lower torque engine putting more torque to the rear axle wasn't fair because the lower torque engine was more powerful.....that is the point power is what matters.

The peak torque figure in conjunction with rpm (which equates to power) and peak Hp describe an engine's pulling and driving characteristics.

Torque doesn't confuse me even a little. Part of my real job is spec'ing in motors and gear boxes for industrial applications. Make a mistake on a $40,000 gearbox and shut a plant down that charges off downtime by the minute and I'd better have my information straight.

As far as the "torque without rpm" statement, that's where a diesel shines. It doesn't have much of a torque curve, it's more of a torque line. A N/A gasser may make decent peak torque, but get even a few 100 RPMs away from that peak and watch it drop to it's knees.

The new generation of boosted gassers (Ford's Ecoboost, for example) do offer a very wide torque band at a very low RPM, kind of diesel like, actually.

The point is that an engine that produces 400 lbft of torque may or may not be capable of pulling anything. 400 lb ft of torque means absolutely nothing without knowing an rpm.

An engine that makes 400 rear wheel HP can be geared to move a 22,000 lb rv up an 8% grade at about 60 mph. It doesn't matter whether that HP is coming from diesel, gasoline or krypton.