Oct-22-2017 09:41 AM
Nov-05-2017 02:58 PM
Nov-05-2017 11:13 AM
gutfelt wrote:4x4ord wrote:
Engine torque vs HP is hugely misunderstood. A gasonline engine capable of making 500 lb ft of torque @ 3200 rpm will absolutely outpull a diesel engine making 800 lb ft of torque at 1600 rpm. It's not that complicated.
Think of a diesel equipped truck traveling 40 mph with the rear axle turning 400 rpm. When the diesel is delivering its maximum torque on the crankshaft of 800 lb ft at 1600 rpm the torque on the rear axle at 400 rpm will be 3200 lb ft.
The gasoline equipped truck will be in a much lower gear to have the engine running at 3200 rpm while its rear axle is turning 400 rpm. It would be capable of putting 4000 lb ft of torque on the rear axle.
So yes torque is what gets the job done but torque has to be measured and compared on the rear axle to mean anything.
Ok now in the real world take a 425HP 1250 lb torque engine @1600
will your gas engine/torque example still out pull mine?
No it wont even come close and that's why you don't see 360HP ford V10 engines used in a 39-45foot Pusher motor homes that all have diesels the weight is too much for poor/low torque gas engines
Nov-05-2017 11:11 AM
Bruce Brown wrote:JaxDad wrote:gutfelt wrote:
I have a 40 ft 425HP 1250ft torque that weighs around 35k loaded
I guarantee you a 360HP ford V10 36-38 ft unit loaded will suck on a long grade compared to mine
Did you drink the Kool-Aid?
Let’s stick with facts and science and save the bragging for the coffee shop parking lot.
A 35k unit with 425 hp and 1250 lb ft of torque is 82.3 pounds per horsepower and 28 pounds per ft. lb. of torque.
A 16k unit with a 362 hp and 457 ft. lb. of torque is 44.2 pounds per horsepower and 35 pounds per ft.lb. of torque.
So the V10 coach has, proportionately, 86% MORE horsepower and only 20% less torque.
I doubt most sane people would consider (per pound of vehicle) having nearly DOUBLE the horsepower with only 20% less torque to “suck” in any way shape or form.
Just as with many other gasser owners, several just in this one thread alone, I routinely pass DP’s on long grades,
It seems your ‘guarantee’ isn’t worth much, sort of like a used car salesman’s promises.
I'll skip the math and go to actual ownership. Hills that used to bring our Dutchstar gasser to it's knees our Cat powered (330/860) Kountry Star pulled with relative ease.
Our Cummins powered Kountry Star (400/1200) pulls those same hills without downshifting.
An object in motion tends to stay in motion. HP sells stuff, torque gets the job done.
Both have their place. Having owned both I can say I much prefer the low RPM, broad, flat torque a diesel produces. It simply can't be compared to a non-boosted gasser. (The Ford Ecoboost gassers make good power at a low RPM).
With that said, they make both for a reason.
Nov-05-2017 11:09 AM
gutfelt wrote:Gjac wrote:gutfelt wrote:A large diesel will move the load up the hill a lot easier because of the torque at much lower rpms while the gas MH makes its max HP at much higher rpms and it seems to be working a lot harder but that is in the design. If two Mhs are traveling at 40 MPH and hit the hill at the same the faster one on the flat will get to the top quicker. Try it you will see. I travel with several friends with DP's one is A 1998 38 FT Dutch star with 330 HP and weights 32k lbs the other is a 2013 Phaeton with 360 HP mine is only 300 HP but weighs 15k lbs less than half their weight. I always pass both on long hills because my performance on the flat is faster. Don't want to start a Diesel vs Gas debate just trying to help the Op with her decision.Gjac wrote:
Sorry to hear about the loss of your husband and figuring this stuff out can be daunting. I would suspect that your older DP is probably close to twice what the gas MH weighs. Also compare the HP of your older DP to the 362HP V-10. HP/wt is what will determine your performance. A simple test is to see how long it takes your DP to go from 40-60 MPH on a flat and then test the Gas MH the same way. If the gas MH is quicker and I would suspect it would be you will also be quicker on the hills. Good Luck on finding the right MH for you.
except on the hills the large diesel because of torque will move the load up the hill a lot easier so not true that if gas faster on flat ground it then will be faster on hills
I have a 40 ft 425HP 1250ft torque that weighs around 35k loaded
I guarantee you a 360HP ford V10 36-38 ft unit loaded will suck on a long grade compared to mine
Oct-30-2017 04:22 PM
4x4ord wrote:
The V10 makes more peak horse power than the diesel in your American Tradition. It really should pull that 22000 lb Itasca up a 6% grade at 45 mph. It needs to be screaming pretty good to do it though....the peak hp is at 4750 rpm.
Oct-30-2017 04:12 PM
fortytwo wrote:
If your trailer puts you near the CGW rating you should have a transmission temperature gauge.
Oct-26-2017 11:36 AM
Oct-26-2017 08:15 AM
Dutch_12078 wrote:
All I care about is that our old 2001 34' coach with its V-10 towing our 3500 lb toad pulls the 6% grade at Fancy Gap, VA and other hills holding its own with the rest of the traffic. Faster than some, slower than others. We haven't met a hill yet we couldn't get over though. Since the majority of our time, like nearly all RV'ers, is spent living in our RV, not driving or towing it, the floor plan was much more important to us than the how it gets down the road. All I ask for on that end is reliability, stability, and minimal maintenance costs.
Oct-26-2017 06:38 AM
RJL wrote:
A suggestion for the original poster. If she wants to go to a newer gasser I've read very good things about the 5 star tune for the Ford V-10 she'll have. I can't speak from experience yet, but I have been looking at it over and over again over the last 6 months or so. Usually when that happens I buy it.
Oct-26-2017 06:10 AM
Oct-25-2017 09:32 PM
Oct-25-2017 08:20 PM
4x4ord wrote:Bruce Brown wrote:4x4ord wrote:
Torque just seems to confuse people. Torque without rpm is useless and torque with rpm is power. Like you mentioned: my example of the lower torque engine putting more torque to the rear axle wasn't fair because the lower torque engine was more powerful.....that is the point power is what matters.
The peak torque figure in conjunction with rpm (which equates to power) and peak Hp describe an engine's pulling and driving characteristics.
Torque doesn't confuse me even a little. Part of my real job is spec'ing in motors and gear boxes for industrial applications. Make a mistake on a $40,000 gearbox and shut a plant down that charges off downtime by the minute and I'd better have my information straight.
As far as the "torque without rpm" statement, that's where a diesel shines. It doesn't have much of a torque curve, it's more of a torque line. A N/A gasser may make decent peak torque, but get even a few 100 RPMs away from that peak and watch it drop to it's knees.
The new generation of boosted gassers (Ford's Ecoboost, for example) do offer a very wide torque band at a very low RPM, kind of diesel like, actually.
The point is that an engine that produces 400 lbft of torque may or may not be capable of pulling anything. 400 lb ft of torque means absolutely nothing without knowing an rpm.
An engine that makes 400 rear wheel HP can be geared to move a 22,000 lb rv up an 8% grade at about 60 mph. It doesn't matter whether that HP is coming from diesel, gasoline or krypton.
Oct-25-2017 07:29 PM
Oct-25-2017 05:34 PM
Bruce Brown wrote:4x4ord wrote:
Torque just seems to confuse people. Torque without rpm is useless and torque with rpm is power. Like you mentioned: my example of the lower torque engine putting more torque to the rear axle wasn't fair because the lower torque engine was more powerful.....that is the point power is what matters.
The peak torque figure in conjunction with rpm (which equates to power) and peak Hp describe an engine's pulling and driving characteristics.
Torque doesn't confuse me even a little. Part of my real job is spec'ing in motors and gear boxes for industrial applications. Make a mistake on a $40,000 gearbox and shut a plant down that charges off downtime by the minute and I'd better have my information straight.
As far as the "torque without rpm" statement, that's where a diesel shines. It doesn't have much of a torque curve, it's more of a torque line. A N/A gasser may make decent peak torque, but get even a few 100 RPMs away from that peak and watch it drop to it's knees.
The new generation of boosted gassers (Ford's Ecoboost, for example) do offer a very wide torque band at a very low RPM, kind of diesel like, actually.