John & Angela wrote:gtschulz wrote:
Here is the update on this problem. I followed Fire Ups recommendations and am happy to report that, within 20 seconds of cranking, the motor was running!! Many thanks to all that had suggestions especially Scott. You were right on the money.
Thanks to all.
Jerry
My friend, Fire up Is ALWAYS right on the money. If we ever have a break down we are going to keep things simple and just fly him and his bride to wherever we are. :).
Jerry and my good Buddy John,
I surely thank you for your nice comments. I have learned a lot working on this newer beast of ours. I've had issues here and there. I've consulted this and other forums and have had some good, and not so good advice. As you know, I've done all my own work on it and everything else we've owned for the last 40 years so, experience has certainly paid off.
While I've driven diesels for my entire career, I've not had to actually do much work on them. When mine had the "No Start" condition. I PANICKED!!!!!!! My first thoughts were "DOLLAR SIGNS" FLOATING BY MY EYES" as I was sure, that, the rig would have to be towed to a local CAT or Freightliner service center for a tech to get it started. Well, some phone calls, some asking on here, some stepping out side the box (as I've done for ever) and, thanks to Brett Wolf, CAT and, Freightliner, that method I relayed to Jerry, worked.
So, I'm glad you got it started. That's a bad feeling when that happens. Now, as for installing the shut off valves, it's NOT A LOT OF WORK. It's just about as simple as it gets.
1. Buy valves (mine were $14.00 each but, Home Depot has some for about $6.95 each that will work just fine)
2. Remove hoses
3. Install Valves,
4. Re-install hoses. DONE!
Now, yes, if you pre-fill the filter(s) you will solve part of the possible problem. But, as I stated, if your fuel level in the tank is, lower than your working level of the fuel filter change, there could be a high possibility fuel "drainback". So, just for my own satisfaction, I installed the valves.
Scott
gtschulz wrote:
I have a 2006 Cat C 7 in my Damon Tuscany. I followed the manuals instructions for changing the fuel filters. Put the filters on dry and crank the engine for up to 30 seconds then let the starter cool for 2 minutes then repeat until the engines starts. After about 50 attempts at this procedure the engine hasn't started. Took both filters off and there's no fuel inside either one. HELP!!
gtschulz,
Well Sir, I and one other gent just went through all of what you're going through right now. Yes, there are some CAT instructions that tell you to install the filter dry. That is a rare case though. In most, it's adviseable to pre-fill them prior to installation. And, you fill them in the outer holes, not the center one.
Now, here's what most likely happened. Depending on your present fuel level in your tank, and, the height of the fuel filters in relation to that fuel level, it's quite possible that, your fuel, DRAINED BACK INTO THE TANK as you removed one or the other or both of the filters.
Now, when that happens, the primary fuel pump, known as the "Transfer pump" does not have the ability to self prime, at least not for that length of distance and height. If your fuel system is even close the fuel system in our '04 Itasca Horizon, 36GD with the C-7 CAT, then that's probably what happened. That means you have about a 25' air bubble in the system.
There's some guessing here and, some experience talking. You mentioned "FILTER(S)". Now, I'm assuming that means TWO FUEL filters. If so, where are both of them? On many coaches, especially the Freightliner chassied ones, if there is two, one is a primary and one is a secondary. The primary one is normally located in the very back of the coach, seeable from the back, next to the radiator. The secondary, normally the one that has the finer micron rating, is right on the engine itself. And, NORMALLY, it's on a filter base that also contains a manual hand pump. It's in the form of a plunger.
Now, this does not garaunty that you have all that, I'm just suggesting that's kind of what's normal. But, if you have just one filter, it's the one that's next to the radiator and, has no priming pump.
OK, so, let's say you DO NOT have a priming pump. In that case, here's what I did that helped the wife and I get ours started after a dry filter change.
1. Remove the dry filter, fill it with good, known clean fuel
2. Remove the incoming line to that filter base, (near the radiator)
3. Have a helper, put air pressure into the fuel tank filler neck, sealed with a rag etc. so you get "SOME" pressure build up in the tank. Be careful not to put too much.
4. After a few seconds of pressurizing the tank, you should see fuel coming out of the fuel line that's detached from the filter base.
5. Re-insert and tighten, that fuel line to the filter base.
6. Now, on your engine, you may or may not have what's called the "HEUI" pump. That's the high pressure fuel pump that does most of the work in getting fuel to the injectors. And, the "Transfer pump" is built into the bottom of that HEUI pump. There's an incoming line to that transfer pump, coming from the output line on the filter base.
7. Break free that fitting on that line, and remove it. Now, have your partner put air pressure again, into the tank filler. It might take a bit longer to see fuel coming from that fitting now because it's got farther to go. But, you will see it. At at that point, while your partner is still supplying air to the fuel tank, re-install that line onto the transfer pump.
You have now basically primed the system. The transfer pump can do the rest. If you crank it now, it might take just a few seconds of cranking because the transfer pump has to grab that fuel that you got to it, and push it up to the HEUI pump and the HEUI pump has to now get it to the injectors. So, give that a try and see what happens.
You're not the only one this has happened to. I've coached a few that have had it happen. It's rare, but, it does happen. And, the "preventative" medicine for the next time:
1. Have a full fuel tank
2. While not necessarily needed, it might help to elevate the front end of the coach a tad bit to keep from creating the "drainback" situation again.
3. And this, is only an option that I created for myself and, is purely suggestive. I never, ever want to have that situation happen again so, what I did was, install two "FUEL SHUT OFF VALVES" in the system. I put one on the inlet side to the filter base, and one on the outlet side of it. Now, when it comes time to change the filter, I shut the valves down and no fuel can drain back anywhere. It stays right there and, I can take my time changing an pre-filling the new filter. Hope some of this info helps. Good luck.
Scott
