Sidewall Problems/"Gassing"/Checking of Paint

[hanknjoyce]

I am having a dialogue with my coach maker (Thor) about the paint degradation on my 2005 Mandalay caused by deficient sidewalls. I am looking for some financial accomodation for the "disappearing" suface paint (clearcoat). This problem has been discussed in various threads here and elsewhere. One of the tech reps is asking me who made the defective sidewalls (I would have thought they knew that..). I have always been told/read online it was Owens Corning. But I recall another company name being mentioned.

Can anyone confirm what company actually supplied the sidewalls in the time frame 2005-?2008? that causes this problem..especially to the darker paint areas?

Thanks,

Hank

2005 Mandalay 40B Diesel Pusher
Currently in Apache Junction AZ

[Pirate1]

Is replacing a sidewall has horrible of a job as I can imagine? You would think the entire RV would just fall apart like a house of cards if you removed a single wall.

[imgoin4it]

Newmar is getting rough treatment in this thread, but they are no difference and no worse than any other manufacturer. I had a Winnebago with no paint, just white walls that had what Winnebago called sidewall etching. One side not too bad, the other terrible. They offered me the opportunity to paint the entire coach, with my money of course. I declined, but only later when I bought a Newmar product did the entire problem get explained to me. It makes no difference paint or no paint, dark colors or light. Dark colors deteriorate faster because of the heat. Painting or repainting is only a temporary fix. It's the material and will continue to happen, until replaced one way or another.

[jurzbill]

If you are addressing my post, I am the original owner.. I had a three year warranty , bumper to bumper. was at newmar plant all three years for warranty issues. In all the three years I was not advised of anything being wrong with the sidewalls, which newmar knew there was a problem..
I started to see the cracking after about 5 years.I was told by newmar when I contacted them that they did have a program to assist those with this problem. Unfortuately they did not advise anyone of it and those who did "hear" about it, were told by other owners who found out about this program, the same way I did, Unfortunately the program was not available anymore.
I bought what I thought was a quality unit at the time. Unfortunately I bought it from a company that had no loyalty to their customers.
So if you were addressing me, you are way off. I am glad you are loyal to a "company", I just hope you do not have a serious problem and you find out about it once newmar decides not to honor their commitment to you.
As far as taking responsibility, I pay my own way, but I do expect a company to be honest and forth coming. Newmar hid the fact that there was a problem with the siding. They are the ones that did not take responsibility. So again, if you were addressing my post, please read them closely before making your judgement. Happy travelling.

[DSDP_Don]

Wow.....this is exactly what's wrong with this country! No one is willing to take personal responsibility for their actions or purchases.....and I'm not talking about the manufacturers. EVERYONE has a bought a product both cheap and expensive that has failed at some point. A prime example was the required change in automotive paint by the Federal government many years ago that caused the paint to fail prematurely, but many years outside the warranty. It was a learning experience.

So you have a 12 year old coach and the paint is cracking and now you want your one year warranty extended to 12 years because this is a repair you can't afford or aren't willing to pay. So at what point does the one year warranty end, 12 years, 15 years, 20 years.

Many of us had issues with our paint, including my Monaco (roof line clear coat failure) and eventually some crazing in the dark colors. Rather than look around for some deep pocket to blame for an issue that occurred 11 years out of warranty, I bit the bullet and dealt with the problem...PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

As with any issue such as this, you learn and look for a better quality product on your next purchase, which may include buying a better quality coach to get better paint.

Are you even the original owner???

[s_N_s]

ncrowley wrote:
Newmar was not able to get compensation from the company that provided the sidewalls. They are replacing sidewalls during the winter at a greatly discounted price to help their customers. This year Newmar is charging $15,500 to replace the sidewalls and repaint the coach on my 2004 coach. This is better than companies like Monaco - Monaco will replace the sidewalls and repaint but at the full price of $40,000. Would I like to see them pay for it all? Sure, but I also do not want to see them go bankrupt. I really like Newmar as a company. I have been treated very well by everyone there and I would definitely buy another Newmar coach without hesitation.

You see, here is where Newmar is NOT honest. When I addressed the issue with them the price they gave me was $28000 being it's a 2004 coach. If it would have been a 2005 it would have been $18000. I asked, WHY? that much more. There answer, because it's a 2004. Put the two exact model years side by side and there is NO difference. Now you're saying they'll do it for $15,500. Boy, what an operation. It doesn't matter now I guess as I wouldn't pay that anyway. You would never recoup your money. Ours isn't that bad but I've seen some that are just ridiculous to look at.

[jurzbill]

Newmar was not able to get compensation from the company that provided the sidewalls. They are replacing sidewalls during the winter at a greatly discounted price to help their customers. This year Newmar is charging $15,500 to replace the sidewalls and repaint the coach on my 2004 coach. This is better than companies like Monaco - Monaco will replace the sidewalls and repaint but at the full price of $40,000. Would I like to see them pay for it all? Sure, but I also do not want to see them go bankrupt. I really like Newmar as a company. I have been treated very well by everyone there and I would definitely buy another Newmar coach without hesitation.
Again, why should the customer be saddled with additional cost. We bought these units in good faith, Newmar should have stepped up and repaired the problem in good faith, not stick us with the cost.
If your choice is to be loyal to this company after paying what amounts to a premium for your unit, that is your choice. I restate, I will never buy another unit from Newmar. Happy motoring.

[jurzbill]

Newmar was totally aware of the problem and did nothing to notify their customers that were effected. It was up to the customer to find out and the majority did so long after their warranty was up and the offer to fix the problem at a lesser price. Now they want $15,000.00 more over the original cost of the unit price.
Newmar does not deserve the loyalty of those customers who were ripped off.

[jurzbill]

That is so nice of Newmar.
the problem is they did not notify their customers of this problem and what they would do to fix it, unless you knew there was a problem. They kept it quiet and by the time the majority of Newmar owners found out about it, it was to late to benefit. Paying $15,000.00 for something Newmar should have corrected tells me that they are not faithful to their customers. Newmar was fully aware of this problem and should have notified their customers and let the chips fall where they may. If that meant bankruptcy, oh well. Now they continue to make profits while customers have to eat it. Newmar is no better than the banks that wiped the little guy out.
Again, I will never purchase another unit from these people.

[dougrainer]

imgoin4it wrote:
The problem was every coach manufactured with panels from the company. The product was manufactured and installed by RV manufacturers. After coaches were made the problem started and companies were just as surprisdd as anyone else. The panel manufacturer went back to the drawing board and came up with what they thoughg was a fix. It was tested and came out good. Problem it was not tested long enough and same problem happened again only it took a little longer. RV manufacturers were caught off guard fust like everyone else. I understand the problem was/is finally fixed beginning about 2009. All of my exterior siding has been changed so I hope it is fixed. Problem is ,were RV companies to fix the problem they were caught with, they all would probably go broke, close the doors and go home. Not sure they have any options so they do nothing. Repainting will not fix it, it will just come back. I don't think anyone knows how to fix so buyer are made to "suck it up and live with it.

This problem is EXACTLY why National RV went out of business. National DID do the right thing and were replacing sidewalls expecting their Wall supplier to cover the costs. The Wall supplier filed Bankruptcy, went out of business and left National in the hole financially. National could not recover and shut down. Doug

[ncrowley]

Newmar was not able to get compensation from the company that provided the sidewalls. They are replacing sidewalls during the winter at a greatly discounted price to help their customers. This year Newmar is charging $15,500 to replace the sidewalls and repaint the coach on my 2004 coach. This is better than companies like Monaco - Monaco will replace the sidewalls and repaint but at the full price of $40,000. Would I like to see them pay for it all? Sure, but I also do not want to see them go bankrupt. I really like Newmar as a company. I have been treated very well by everyone there and I would definitely buy another Newmar coach without hesitation.

[jurzbill]

all well and good and the buyer now has a unit that was a big investment and the value is way under the book value. Again, the buyer, the little guy, loses as usual.
Do I really care that a company would go under if they had addressed a problem they were fully aware of prior to selling their units. NO.
and hire a lawyer. Now we just added more cost to a problem that should have been corrected by the manufacturer. Good will???? Companies like Newmar are only interested in the bottom line and could care less about the buyer. They knew and sold defective products and accept no responsibility to their customers unless the customer brought it to their attention.
In my case, after I learned about this defective product it was to late to even get assistance from Newmar. First of all, the only assistance Newmar should have offered was replacement of siding at their cost, not the buyers. Once again, big business walks and the buyer suffers a great loss. As stated, I for one will never buy another product from this company.

[randallb]

rgat,
The number of TSBs repaired out of warranty is a very small percentage and then are only goodwilled to the individuals who will just not go away. But, and this is a very big but, when these people really need financial assistance/goodwill they do not get it. As for comparing automotive TSBs to the RV industry it is definitely apples to oranges or more succinctly, dog waste to caviar. The auto industry/manufacturers sell millions of units a year compared to approximately 350,000 total units (all RVs not just Class As) for the RV industry. Who do you think has the money to provide a greater amount of out of warranty/goodwill repairs? Also, a little known fact about the auto industry is that the sales price of the next years vehicles (2015 compared to 2014 as an example) has the previous year's warranty costs factored in to the price. We won't even get in to the 25% plus discount all RV purchasers want.
Randy

[fortytwo]

Some, maybe most, of the sidewall problems are the result of the adoption of dark color full body paint. About 8 years ago I encountered a company at the big Tampa RV show that's entire business was replacing sidewalls. They said the increased temperature created by the dark paint in the Florida sun was causing failure of the fiberglass underneath. Also since prefab sandwich walls make the construction process more efficient the other materials and adhesives in the sandwich are also subject to degradation due to the increased temps. Easy to validate the difference. Take your IR thermometer you use to check tire temps (you do use one don't you?) and measure a black, red, or dark brown sidewall temp at 2 PM and then measure a white unpainted one. Don't think you'll find a hi-temp materials engineer at any RV manufacturer. User pays for the learning curve.

A second disadvantage of the dark paint is the added burden on the A/C systems.

But don't they look purty!!!

[imgoin4it]

The problem was every coach manufactured with panels from the company. The product was manufactured and installed by RV manufacturers. After coaches were made the problem started and companies were just as surprisdd as anyone else. The panel manufacturer went back to the drawing board and came up with what they thoughg was a fix. It was tested and came out good. Problem it was not tested long enough and same problem happened again only it took a little longer. RV manufacturers were caught off guard fust like everyone else. I understand the problem was/is finally fixed beginning about 2009. All of my exterior siding has been changed so I hope it is fixed. Problem is ,were RV companies to fix the problem they were caught with, they all would probably go broke, close the doors and go home. Not sure they have any options so they do nothing. Repainting will not fix it, it will just come back. I don't think anyone knows how to fix so buyer are made to "suck it up and live with it.

[hanknjoyce]

I think a major issue on this "gassing" is that the affected RV manufacturers knew this was a problem many years ago and chose not to disclose it. Some coaches exhibited this defect within 2-3 years of delivery. Others came later. If this were a car, the defect would likely have been made public to alert the buyers. I have been told of car owners who got their paint redone when the factory application failed.

Those of us affected are not asking for a new coach (at least not me). What we would like is a good-faith effort by the coachmaker to help make things right. As I stated to Thor, that might be at least a partial repaint to restore the value of my coach.

Tiffin has been rebuilding defective sidewalls for several years. Of course, they apparently got a settlement from Owens Corning to soften the blow. Thor does not seem to have tried to do that.

Hank
2005 Mandalay 40B