Starting from scratch! Which model of van do you recommend?

[Clinto]

I just joined the site, and I have a basic (but important) question. I'm at the very beginning of buying a class B van and converting it into a simple camping and road trip vehicle.

I don't plan to install kitchenette or shower or anything like that. It will be a passenger van a lot of the time - taking kids to soccer games, etc. When we go on camping trips, we'll just load gear into the back of the van - including tents & sleeping bags. I plan to have bench seats in back that can fold down to make beds. We'll use the fold-down seats as beds occasionally, but usually will use tents for camping.

I'm looking for advice on which model of van to start with. I plan to buy a new van, and then have it converted. I am thinking about the long wheelbase, high-roof version of one of these models:
• Mercedes Sprinter
• Dodge Promaster
• Ford Transit
• Nissan NV (but not sure if they have a long wheelbase model)

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for posting this, but if it is, here are the questions (or advice i'm looking for):

Which of these is best for reliability? I.e. frequency of repairs? Cost of repairs? Ease of finding qualified repair centers?

Do you have any comments on comfort (for driver and passengers)? I want a van that is very comfortable for long road trips.

And, finally, I would appreciate any general comments or recommendations on selection of a new van for a conversion.

Thanks!
Clint

[My_Roadtrek]

From the other Class B forum I believe MB recommended only 2 hrs of fast idle time before the van should be driven to clean the ERG and DPF.

[Clinto]

I apologize for the delay in replying. I've been burned in work, including over the weekend. I'm taking off tomorrow for a 3-week business trip overseas, so there might also be delays in my responses in the coming few weeks. But I do read and appreciate every comment that is posted.

I am very interested in powertrain reliability. When I buy vehicles, I keep them for a LONG time. So I want to be sure that the next vehicle I buy won't be spending a lot of time in the repair shop. Example: The '87 Vanagon I currently drive. I bought it in April of '97 and am still driving it today. It's been a very reliable vehicle, and repairs have been pretty reasonably priced (once I found a good VW mechanic). But it's getting harder to find some parts, and I need a bigger van now.

I have had initial, brief communication with Sportsmobile in Fresno and with Van Specialties in OR. I also contacted a small local shop in Escondido, CA called Oak Tree (does anybody have any experience with them?) and a shop in the Los Angeles area called El Kapitan (does anybody have any experience with them?)

I think the upfitting/conversion will be very simple. I just want to be sure I start with a van that will give good service and require few repairs for many years. I know nothing is guaranteed, but I want to get as much information as possible before I buy so that I'll have the best shot at getting a vehicle that I'm happy with.

[Shearwater]

Never experienced "black death", never heard of it before, either. FWIW the 2006 and 2015 Sprinters (at least) had an option for a fast idle setting, about 2000 rpm, allowing vehicles to idle for long periods of time without damage. This was intended for emergency vehicles which might sit for a long time with their lights flashing or, perhaps vehicles with refrigeration.

[oneolddog]

overbrook wrote:

Shearwater wrote:

Diesel engines are not the same as gas. I have seen no reports of carbon build up for Sprinters on these forums and certainly not engine rebuilds every 20,000 miles.

Our old Sprinter had 110,00 miles and was still running like new.

Search the Sprinter Source forum for the keyword 'Black Death' and you'll find over 500 messages about Sprinter motors (T1N and NCV3) failing due to carbon fouled injector heads.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/search.php

I've owned two Sprinters. A class C (Winnebago View) and a class B (Great West). Both spent more time in the shop than all other vehicles I owned. Never will own one again.

Bill

From what I've heard 'black death' was a problem on the older model Sprinter vans only. Our local dealer told me that they have contractors using under hood generators to power power tools all day with no issues at all.

[mkguitar]

rockymtnb wrote:
...Consumer Reports points out that the least reliable vehicle from their 2014 survey was more reliable than the top finishers from the mid 90s....

Good point.
manufacturers were dragged into the new century, and we have benefited by much better vehicles- even though commercial chassis are often 5 years behind passenger vehicles.
better design, materials, machining and assembly result in longer wearing more economical vehicles.

mike

[rockymtnb]

We've had a pretty deep discussion of some of the van powertrain details in this thread. But going back to your original post about wanting a basic travel van with simple bed conversion in back, I'm going to suggest you ask the van conversion company which vehicle chassis they suggest as most appropriate.

To the best of my knowledge only Sportsmobile and Van Specialties (Oregon) have experience converting all three Ford Transit, Mercedes Sprinter, and Ram Promaster units into RVs and camping vans. Sportsmobile tends to build complete campers with built-in kitchen, cabinets, and beds. Van Specialties converts a wide range of units all the way from full RVs to work vans and relatively simple campers like you describe.

I know you're concerned about vehicle reliability. But Consumer Reports points out that the least reliable vehicle from their 2014 survey was more reliable than the top finishers from the mid 90s. So although problems can occur you'll most likely have good reliability with a new van.

Safety might be a more significant concern given that your kids will be riding in the back. New vans have better stability control, tire pressure monitoring, airbags, and controlled crush zones than your older Vanagon. And for the convertible seat/bed at the back you'll want to make sure it's got full seat belts and safety anchors. Van Specialties seems like a good resource for those questions also.

[My_Roadtrek]

Carbon build up in the Sprinters seems be caused by excessive idling, causing the ERG, DPF to get clogged. I don't think it's been a problem with normal driving. MB recommends a good drive after an idling period to eliminate the ERG and DPF fouling problem.
Only time will tell if it becomes a problem with the under hood generators, and excessive idling.
I have read where a diesel fuel system cleaner was recommended every 10K if used for prolonged idling.
I'm sure this is all covered in more detail on the Sprinter forums.

[overbrook]

Shearwater wrote:

Diesel engines are not the same as gas. I have seen no reports of carbon build up for Sprinters on these forums and certainly not engine rebuilds every 20,000 miles.

Our old Sprinter had 110,00 miles and was still running like new.

Search the Sprinter Source forum for the keyword 'Black Death' and you'll find over 500 messages about Sprinter motors (T1N and NCV3) failing due to carbon fouled injector heads.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/search.php

I've owned two Sprinters. A class C (Winnebago View) and a class B (Great West). Both spent more time in the shop than all other vehicles I owned. Never will own one again.

Bill

[Clinto]

D'oh!! Good point - diesel vs. gas....

[Shearwater]

My Roadtrek wrote:
Clinto wrote:

Does anybody know if the Sprinter engine has port injection or direct injection?


Direct injection for both the 5cyl, and V6.

Diesel engines are not the same as gas. I have seen no reports of carbon build up for Sprinters on these forums and certainly not engine rebuilds every 20,000 miles.

Our old Sprinter had 110,00 miles and was still running like new.

[Clinto]

Hmmm,.... it might behoove me to try to coax one more year of driving out of my trusty old '87 Vanagon....

The report on Youtube about replacing cylinder heads every 20k miles wasn't appealing.

[My_Roadtrek]

Clinto wrote:
Does anybody know if the Sprinter engine has port injection or direct injection?

Direct injection for both the 5cyl, and V6.

[My_Roadtrek]

From what I have read the Eco Boost 3.5 engine will all be dual injection, and the DI will be discontinued. Maybe 2017 Transit models, sooner I hope.

[Clinto]

Interesting comments - thanks. It sounds like any engine with direct (in-cylinder) injection will experience carbon deposits on the valves - particularly the intake valves. It also sounds like the automobile manufacturers treat their customers as unwitting beta testers. (I hope it's not inappropriate to inject a bit of editorial comment there...)

Does anybody know if the Sprinter engine has port injection or direct injection?