The "all electric" coach is probably a misnomer

[holstein13]

A couple years ago when I was placing my order for my new coach, I had to decide if I wanted an "all electric" coach. At first mention, that sounded great -- no more propane use.

After having the coach for a year and a half now, I'm glad I took the "all-electric" option, but there are some negatives and I wanted to talk about the pros and cons.

First of all, the idea that you can use your coach, year round, without burning fuel is a misnomer. The "all electric" appliances will still burn fuel in certain circumstances, but it won't be propane. There are essentially four systems impacted by this option:

1. Cooktop / Oven - In my old coach, we had a propane cooktop and in the new coach, it's an induction model. While the induction model is usually adequate, I'd say the propane model was much more powerful and easier to control. Sure, it caused more humidity in the coach, but it was easier to cook with and didn't require the generator to be on while boondocking. The induction cooktop is easier to clean and does the job. The electric oven is a GE Advantium Microwave / convection oven. It is a bit smaller than the traditional propane oven. Like the cooktop, I prefer the gas oven to the electric oven. But since RVs typically come with a microwave anyway, the electric ends up being a space saver. Some folks never use their gas ovens.
2. Refrigerator - This is the old debate between propane and residential. I think most of you are familiar with the debate so I'll boil it down to more room and better temperature control in the residential refrigerator versus less electric power usage with the propane model.
3. Heating / Furnace - The "all electric" option uses an electric heat pump to heat the coach until the outside temperature falls below 40 degrees, then it draws upon the hydrostatic water heater to provide heat. If the temps don't fall too low for too long, the two electric heating elements in the water heater will do an adequate job. However, if temps fall much lower for much longer, the system will need to burn diesel fuel to keep up. This is not a bad tradeoff and probably saves us a ton of money, but it's something to consider. The heating system will still burn fuel in extreme cases.
4. Water Heater - Again, the water heater uses the hydrostatic heater in the basement that is heated by electric heating elements or a diesel burner. For short showers with little water flow in warm climates the electric heating elements are more than adequate to provide nearly continuous hot water, but in many other situations, the diesel burner must be activated to heat the water.

So there you have it. I'd still take the electric option if I had to do it over again. It saves us money while we are hooked up to electrical sites and I'd rather run out and add a few gallons of diesel to my tank than have to lug a spare tank of propane or move my coach when we are boondocking. But it's not as simple of a decision for everyone.

ON EDIT: I updated this to add the oven description. Also, I should add that I've got a 600 watt solar array that was not part of the electric package. It was extra.

[Mr_Mark1]

timjet wrote:
OK, stupid question from someone who does not own a MH yet; How do you power a residential refrig when driving down the road. Large battery bank and inverter?? Surely you don't run the generator all the time.

Mr. Timjet, yes, you are exactly right. The residential fridge runs off of the batteries through the inverter. If a coach has a solar panel on the roof, it will assist in charging the batteries.

Residential fridges use little electricity (if you keep the door closed). 😛

We don't have solar but have 3 Lithium Ion house batteries, 4 starting batteries for the engine (24 volt) and one battery for the generator. We have four 3,500 watt inverters, four alternators on the engine that will allow us to use four roof airs without the generator running going down the road.

This set-up is just to show you there is a huge range of configurations depending on how complicated you want to get. LOL!



MM.

[prstlk]

We are ft and I did consider bringing the honda 2k along. We did alot of dry camping last summer in Alaska and in hindsight I'm glad we didn't. Hauling it out, securing it, the three step down adapters, and having to carry a gas can outweighs any savings. Our diesel onan is very quiet and uses little fuel. The rest of our stuff is pretty standard, 2 way fridge, propane cook-top, convection microwave, heat pump, and 2 propane furnaces.
The op did a great job pointing out his experience
Thanks

[timjet]

OK, stupid question from someone who does not own a MH yet; How do you power a residential refrig when driving down the road. Large battery bank and inverter?? Surely you don't run the generator all the time.

[bluwtr49]

I toyed with the idea of going all electric but ran into a couple of stumbling blocks....one in particular is almost insurmountable. My wife really likes cooking with the gas cook top. At one point I brought up the idea of replacing the gas cook top with an induction unit and was told quite bluntly that if I want to do the cooking I can have whatever I want.

Since my propane tank typically needs to be refilled every couple of year I could not use that as an excuse.

The other issue is how to live on 30 amp power which happens occasionally and our Marquis is enough of a power hog as it is and I have to turn off one AC compressor, the Inst-hot, put the fridge on gas and etc. If I went to more AC appliances it would only get worse.

Dry camping I still have to run the genset for morning and evening meals so it makes no difference if it's 10 KW or a small portable..still have to run one. Seems silly to have another.

[webslave]

If I need the generator for the coffee, then I've probably already got it on so that the satellite and tv are going for morning weather and news, the induction counter top unit is frying bacon and eggs while the Breville toaster oven is making toast while my beard trimmer is charging... A small generator in my 42' coach would be pretty useless. Most people have other means of making coffee if that is all that you would be using a generator for. I wouldn't carry a generator for the purpose of just making coffee and toast...if the only reason I needed a generator for was to make coffee, I'd rather bring along my handy-dandy Coleman white gas stove and make it on that; even smaller and lighter and it served me quite well for a lot of years of tent camping. My 8 kw generator is very thrifty on fuel, quieter than most portable generators, even my 3 kw Honda, and I can start it and stop it from inside the motor home, rain or shine, and I don't worry about it walking off and I'm not carrying extra weight or taking up space for having a second generator that is easily replaced by my "big" generator. I'll keep my big generator 🙂

[Kayteg1]

The only problem I have will all electric idea is that from what I have seen they all come with monsters diesel generators.
You want to make few toasts and coffee, you have to carry 1500lb of batteries, or fire up 2000 lb generator that is good for whole village.
Would that be such a big deal to make smaller inverter generator?
Even for my camper, beside bigger (90 lb) build-in, I am carrying 25lb portable generator to make small coffee and recharge the batteries.
What you the electric owners say about idea of 2 generators?
One 1000W for coffee, microwave and battery charging and big monster for those 5 AC ?

[wa8yxm]

The Hydrostatic heater (Burns Diesel or Electric) is common on Diesels. it also can "Burn" engine heat when you are on the road and pre-heat the engine before you leave in many cases., Very handy.

The rest.. Yes all of them can "Burn" diesel via the generator.. But then some places the stuff that comes out of that metal box next to your RV was made with fossil fuels.. INCLUDING in some rare cases Diesel. Just not YOUR diesel.

[holstein13]

Kayteg1 wrote:
Sounds like you have no solar panels holstein?
I think we also need to cover some extreme situations as you did not say anything about oven.
So what you do when you want to reheat frozen lasagna, that needs 3 hr in convection oven, or 4 hr in traditional oven?
Obviously we are not talking shore power.

Good points. I should have mentioned that I have 600 watts of solar on the roof and I have a GE Advantium oven that does microwave and convection cooking.

I should have mentioned this above, but I prefer the gas oven because it's larger and more powerful than the electric oven.

[webslave]

Whether in our coach or the S&B, our usage costs us around $125 to $150 per month. Our lifestyle doesn't change between the two. In the coach we cook all electric, we use primarily electricity for the water heater and heat (Aqua Hot) and it is on 24/7. We also use the dishwasher when it gets full and most of our laundry is done in our on-board stacked washer dryer. A/C when needed and heat pumps when the temperature is suitable. Our only "conservation" is our thermostats are set for 68 heat and 78 A/C, we turn off lights when not needed (both the house and coach are all LED lit-our bill at home dropped ~$30 after the conversion), and we wait for full loads for the clothes and dish washers. You would think the coach, being smaller would consume less, and it does based on kWh, but, you usually pay almost twice as per kWh at metered campground hookups as compared to what the utility companies are actually charging. The house, in our case, comes out the same despite the difference in rates because we don't have A/C and our heat is an oil furnace that is supplemented by wood stoves.

Our home is in western PA and we winter in southern AZ. It does drop below freezing, frequently, at night, in Benson, but, the days are crisp and cool (50's and 60's with some 70's thrown in) and no snow.

[Kayteg1]

Would be interesting to hear monthly energy bill, but I don't think there is going to big difference between all-electric and one with propane.
AC on both work the same, even having propane furnace, most owners use electric heaters having shore power.
Refrigerators use is marginal. I think comparing such bills with knowledge of the climate would allow us to know what RV brand comes with better insulation.

[mowermech]

Have you had the all-electric coach in a full-hookup RV park with metered electricity for a month or so yet? I would be interested in hearing what the electric bill was in such a scenario.

[dahkota]

Our Bounder has a convection microwave. If boondocking/dry camping and I MUST reheat frozen lasagna, I use the roast setting, which uses both microwave and convection oven heating. After twenty minutes, it is no longer frozen so I switch it to bake for another 15-20 minutes. Yes, I must run the generator, but if I am cooking frozen lasagna, chances are it is cold and rainy outside and my batteries need a boost anyway.

(Disclaimer: we have propane and 600W of solar. Generator use is directly related to the weather.)

[Kayteg1]

Sounds like you have no solar panels holstein?
I think we also need to cover some extreme situations as you did not say anything about oven.
So what you do when you want to reheat frozen lasagna, that needs 3 hr in convection oven, or 4 hr in traditional oven?
Obviously we are not talking shore power.

[holstein13]

Mr.Mark wrote:

holstein13 wrote:

Mr.Mark wrote:
Taking my two great nieces to Magic Springs water park in Hot Springs, AR, early June. I'll try and cookout then. They are 13 and have never traveled in an RV before, they are excited!

When I look at Google Earth, I see so many beautiful lakes, rivers and forests in Arkansas, yet I never find myself spending time there. One of these days, I'll have to make it a priority.

I did pass through Little Rock recently. But I don't think that counts.

We are doing the Pacific Northwest this summer.

If you get a chance when passing through Arkansas, stop in Bentonville to see Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art. It will blow you away. Not only the Art but the beautiful design of the architecture of the buildings.

Hot Springs is home of the Arlington Hotel where you can get the 'hot baths' from the natural springs. My grandfather would go over from TN by train to take the baths to help his arthritis (in the 40's and 50's). I 'took the baths' several years ago to see what my grandfather experienced and it is truly a step back in time. Attendants prepare your bath water for the spring-water bath. Afterwards, you get a massage..... heaven.

Clinton's Presidential Museum is in Little Rock, impressive.

Safe travels,
MM.

Thanks for the tips. I did enjoy the Clinton Museum.

[Mr_Mark1]

holstein13 wrote:

Mr.Mark wrote:
Taking my two great nieces to Magic Springs water park in Hot Springs, AR, early June. I'll try and cookout then. They are 13 and have never traveled in an RV before, they are excited!

When I look at Google Earth, I see so many beautiful lakes, rivers and forests in Arkansas, yet I never find myself spending time there. One of these days, I'll have to make it a priority.

I did pass through Little Rock recently. But I don't think that counts.

We are doing the Pacific Northwest this summer.

If you get a chance when passing through Arkansas, stop in Bentonville to see Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art. It will blow you away. Not only the Art but the beautiful design of the architecture of the buildings.

Hot Springs is home of the Arlington Hotel where you can get the 'hot baths' from the natural springs. My grandfather would go over from TN by train to take the baths to help his arthritis (in the 40's and 50's). I 'took the baths' several years ago to see what my grandfather experienced and it is truly a step back in time. Attendants prepare your bath water for the spring-water bath. Afterwards, you get a massage..... heaven.

Clinton's Presidential Museum is in Little Rock, impressive.

Safe travels,
MM.