Top of line Gasser Vs. bottom of line Diesel Pusher

[Mondooker]

Since joining the forum I've asked a lot of questions and received great answers. And when asking questions about something new, other questions come up.

One recommendation I received was buying a newer model Gasser instead of an older model DP. This is my first motorhome and I want something around 40 feet and want to spend no more than $100,000.00.

As I'm looking at used upper model Gassers, which i'd not done before, like Tiffin Allegro and Newmar Canyon Star. I found that the base models of Diesel Pushers are around the same price.

My question is "what's a better move for a new-be, a top of the line used Gasser or the used base model Diesel Pusher"?

Your help has been invaluable, thanks you!

[Notladjr]

Ivylog wrote:
Not many gassers over 37' as that's about the max weight for a V10. That said there was a recent post about a 40' Tow Hauler that even had a decent amount of CCC partly because of the empty space in the rear.

"Diesels can get very expensive for both Maintenance and Operation"... I have not found that to be true, but I do all of my own M and O plus repairs. I would go back as many years as necessary to find a mid level DP.

It will be interesting to see how much this no reserve .......Monaco Signature goes for... my educated guess $115K for a 03 top of the line maxed out DP.

PS: you will not find a bath and a half in a gasser.:B

I am guessing the Monaco more at around $70,700!!!

[Effy]

mike brez wrote:

barmcd wrote:

the silverback wrote:
Lots of talk here!! How about getting the floor plan that best suits your needs. than worry about gas or DP.

Not for me--there are about a million floor plans that could work for me, but if I don't like driving it, the floor plan doesn't matter.

X2 no way. After owning my gasser for 14 years and not liking the handeling,brakes and engine noise a DP that drove and handled nice was number one on my list.

I think the point is that most floorplans exist on a DP or gas platform. But I would agree that the plaftform is a critical decision. Floorplan is critical once you figure out the platform.

[Gjac]

Mondooker wrote:
I just read the information by Johnny T., and it was excellent. I intended to read it before and somehow forgot it was there. One thing I should have included in my earlier post is "Fit & Finish" and is something very important to us.. We are retired and our time is our own but we do plan to spend a good amount of time in our motorhome. Maybe up to 5 months.

Along with the fit and finish we also want a coach that allows access to main areas when underway. One other thing of importance is a washer & dryer and NOT a combo.

By golly I'm starting to learn something and they say it couldn't be done!

. That is a good start. During the the 5 mos of travel how much time do you plan on remote CGs like NPs, NF, SP, or COE type CGs (dry camping) vs RV resorts or private CGs with full hook ups? What kind of tow car do you want a small car that gets good gas mileage or a large SUV? How you answer these and other questions will help you decide.

[mike_brez]

barmcd wrote:

the silverback wrote:
Lots of talk here!! How about getting the floor plan that best suits your needs. than worry about gas or DP.

Not for me--there are about a million floor plans that could work for me, but if I don't like driving it, the floor plan doesn't matter.

X2 no way. After owning my gasser for 14 years and not liking the handeling,brakes and engine noise a DP that drove and handled nice was number one on my list.

[Effy]

There is fit and finish and there is quality and they are not always synonymous. The MH buying decision all comes back to 2 main factors; how you will use it (which includes needs/wants) and your budget.

How you will use it includes the factors like diesel over gas, fit and finish, quality, floorplan, bin layout, how many TV's, fabrics etc. Your budget dictates how many concessions you will make in factor 1.

I think most people on this forum would love a Prevost, or Newell or a Foretravel, etc. Then you encounter the budget question. There are also constraints with a rig that size like campgrounds etc. Again back to how you will use it.

You need to go and look at, sit in, drive and poke around as many MH's as you can. Find a floorplan that works for you. Not only when camped but when travelling. Some models offer very little usability when travelling. Then research the brands that meet your needs and budget. When you find a brand and a floorplan that works, the right model will hit you. But no one can decide all this for you. Especially your needs and wants. That's your wife's job.

Many on here will tout one brand's quality over another. In most cases a few brands bubble to the top. Whats equally important is support from a given manufacturer. However this is only applicable with new. Used and you get no support really from anyone.

[Mondooker]

I just read the information by Johnny T., and it was excellent. I intended to read it before and somehow forgot it was there. One thing I should have included in my earlier post is "Fit & Finish" and is something very important to us.. We are retired and our time is our own but we do plan to spend a good amount of time in our motorhome. Maybe up to 5 months.

Along with the fit and finish we also want a coach that allows access to main areas when underway. One other thing of importance is a washer & dryer and NOT a combo.

By golly I'm starting to learn something and they say it couldn't be done!

[Cloud_Dancer]

OK, I'm going to give everyone the benefit of knowing that YOU know that you should select the floorplan that works for YOU. Jeeezz...

[Gjac]

Mondooker wrote:
Since joining the forum I've asked a lot of questions and received great answers. And when asking questions about something new, other questions come up.

One recommendation I received was buying a newer model Gasser instead of an older model DP. This is my first motorhome and I want something around 40 feet and want to spend no more than $100,000.00.

As I'm looking at used upper model Gassers, which i'd not done before, like Tiffin Allegro and Newmar Canyon Star. I found that the base models of Diesel Pushers are around the same price.

My question is "what's a better move for a new-be, a top of the line used Gasser or the used base model Diesel Pusher"?

Your help has been invaluable, thanks you!

To answer your question directly it would be a DP if you want 40 ft. As a first time buyer I would be asking a different question. What MH would meet my needs and how would you like to camp. I see you live in Florida not many hills there or pot holes. Are you still working? How much travel will you do outside of Florida? I would also suggest you read and study the 1st sticky at the top of this forum by Johnny T called "first time buyer" he explains in detail gas vs diesel MH's advantage and disadvantage of both. It dispels a lot of myths and takes the emotion out of the debate.

[Mondooker]

I'm happy with the discussion about the rear engine gasser because from it all I've learned more than I knew before and thank you for that. As for each of your thoughts gasser vs DP I've enjoyed that as well.

I think where I stand right now is I'm oriented towards a DP but would give consideration to a gasser with a floorplan that really fit us. I know through this conversation that a gasser is louder, doesn't stop as well, doesn't break as well, doesn't toe as well and doesn't have as beefy of chassis. But most seem to be in agreement that both will get you where you're going.

Truth be told I'd like a 45' Prevost but have found their owners to be unreasonable. I was talking to one with an old 2008 who laughed at my cash offer of $100,000.00. How rude right!
I hoped he said "yah when pigs fly" because I've been working on that.

Thanks again to you all for excellent information!

[Mondooker]

You're right enblethen, but Ivylog was more eloquent! 🙂

[barmcd]

-Gramps- wrote:

Mr.Mark wrote:

-Gramps- wrote:
Don,

I have owned the coach for nine years. It may have cost more than most gas buyers wanted to spend, the marketing may have not worked but the design is very good. There are hundreds of them still on the road (not that you would know if you saw one), very few are for sale anywhere because most owners keep them. I met an owner of a Winnie UFO yesterday. He pulled in from Roanoke on his way to Key West. Loves his GP.

My coach is 39.5 feet long, 22.5 tires, tows 10,000 lbs Allison 2000 tranny, and climbs a 7 percent grade faster than most motorhomes or trucks. It also has a computer controlled counter-weighted torsion box suspension that keeps it upright on tight curves. It has quad piston pressurized brakes and it will stop faster from 60 to 0 than a dp the same size.

Gramps, I think a Gas Pusher is a neat idea and I'm glad that you like yours.

But, a 60 to 0 stop comparison has to be done by weight, not size.

Our 45 ft. DP has a 'retarder' with 6 speeds. Most other DP'ers will have a 2 or 3 speed jake brake. The six speed retarder is stronger.

You will not find a 55,500 lb. gasser like our DP. We can stop extremely quick for our weight when using our 6 speed retarder, it has automatic activation when using the service brakes.

MM.

I was referring to same weight rating, poor choice of words I guess. I am not going to compare my coach to a 55,000 lb high end diesel anymore than I would compare a 325hp entry level diesel to a Road Trek class B. Its not apples to apples

Maybe this article might be interesting to you.
Its one of the reasons I purchased the UFO and the brakes have saved me more than once. I also have a grade brake...meaning when the grade brake is turned on, when going downhill I can tap the break pedal, the brakes do not engage, the transmission downshifts instead.

Union City, November 28, 2006 -- The conventional wisdom is that the air brakes on a rear diesel pusher motor home can beat anything mechanical found on a gas-powered motor home. If you want the best in stopping power, that's the way to go.

This is among the assumptions the new Workhorse UFO™ chassis has just shattered. Test data indicates the Workhorse UFO™ HPB Quadraulic™ four-wheel anti-lock disc brakes are superior to the competition's air brakes.

Results from head to head tests performed at the Bosch Proving Grounds in South Bend, Ind., have been released by Workhorse Custom Chassis. They show the Workhorse UFO™ coming to a complete stop more than a coach length sooner from 60 mph than the competition's rear diesel pusher.

Here are the facts:

" Coach on Workhorse UFO™ 26,000 lb. GVWR loaded to 26,000 lb.: Stopping distance, 60 mph to 0 mph, 189 feet.
" Similar coach on competitor's 28,000 lb. GVWR rear diesel pusher with air brakes and loaded to 26,000 lbs.: Stopping distance, 60 mph to 0 mph, 238 feet.

Difference: Workhorse UFO™ stopped 49 feet sooner.

"RVers driving big rigs want brakes they can trust to perform well in all kinds of weather and other conditions,"? said Bob Wert, Workhorse vice president of sales and marketing. "They haven't been mentioned much, but the stopping power and car-like touch of the Workhorse UFO™ brakes are some of the persuasive attributes for anyone who drives this chassis."?

Workhorse Custom Chassis

Workhorse Custom Chassis is ISO 9001 certified and a leader in the manufacture of chassis for motor homes, walk-in trucks and buses. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of International Truck and Engine Corporation. International produces IC brand school buses, school bus chassis, mid-range diesel engines, International brand medium and heavy trucks, and severe service vehicles. International also provides parts and service sold under the International® brand. Both Workhorse and International are subsidiaries of Navistar International Corporation (NYSE: NAV). For additional information call 877-294-6773 or visit Workhorse.com.
__________________

I question those braking figures. My 2015 C7 Corvette has a 60-0 stopping distance of 97 feet which is exceptional. The Corvette weighs 3297 lbs and has very large disks along with the widest, stickiest, street legal tires available.

For comparison, a 2015 F150 has a 60-0 stopping distance of 129 feet. The F150 weighs 5160 lbs and has relatively wide all season radial tires.

I don't see how a 26,000 motor home is going to stop just 50 fewer feet than an F150 or 90 feet less than a Corvette.

Here's some other cars performance in a 60-0 stop.

Volvo C30 - 143
Dodge Caliber SXT - 149
Nissan Cube S - 149
Toyota Camry Hybrid - 145
Cadillac DTS Luxury II - 145
Jeep Liberty Sport - 150
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara - 150

[barmcd]

the silverback wrote:
Lots of talk here!! How about getting the floor plan that best suits your needs. than worry about gas or DP.

Not for me--there are about a million floor plans that could work for me, but if I don't like driving it, the floor plan doesn't matter.

[Ivylog]

Mondooker wrote:
Ivylog you sure pay attention! You are exactly right and have been a great help to me!

Thanks... I've been RVing for most of my life and have learned a fair amount. Unfortunately the most expensive education was because of posts on here 13 years ago that 36' was the MAX for NP, SP, USFS..... campgrounds. As you can see (Oops, you can't see I now have a 42' quad slide) I learned that was not true and hate to see anyone make the same $$$$ mistakes I did. Fortunately I started with a well used 36' DP, but trading twice is expensive.

It's tempting to suggest you should rent something before buying, but it's almost impossible to rent a nice enough rig that will give the DW a good and realistic experience. Even if you found a nice rig to rent with the unusually wet winter we are having... it would rain all week killing any hopes of getting her on board.

The good news is you are already located where most would want to be this winter so you have plenty of time... no need to get in a hurry. Without a trade and cash money you are in the driver's seat on any deal.

OK, there are a FEW bath & 1/2 gassers, but IMHO it takes up too much space unless it's in a 45' DP and I've been told I'm full of it.:B

[jerseyjim]

Maybe I missed something...but I couldn't find if you (OP) were looking for new or used. Anyway...my 2 cents, my thoughts, my opinions...well,maybe 3 cents.

Back in 2000, 2001 looking at DPs or gassers, side by side (new) I found the difference in price (new) side by side was about $30,000. My first (and only) reaction was "I can buy alot of gas for 30 grand". So...I bought a (new) 2001, 33 foot gasser. Ford V-10...at that time the ONLY mfg available. While I realize DPs are smoother and less noise, I got used to the "less than" smoothness real fast, and for the noise...either take my hearing aid out....or turn the radio volume up. Or...just ignore the thing. No biggie either way.

As far as fuel costs go...they probably even out. 7.5 mpg gas vs. 11 mpg diesel. Diesel is around 40-50 cents a gallon more than gas...so........
The only caution: gassers are best way under 40 ft long. Early to mid 30's, IMO is best. Mainly because of the weight. Each slideout is around 1000 pounds plus the frame extensions....in the past some new gassers were so heavy that by the time the driver and passenger get in...you are at or exceed the max weight limit. And...the usual "DPs can go 200,000 miles...." yes. Probably true. But it's only 3000 miles east/west/coast to coast. How many times y'gonna do that?
Bottom line: your bucks, spend them your way...and g'luck!