Top of line Gasser Vs. bottom of line Diesel Pusher

[Mondooker]

Since joining the forum I've asked a lot of questions and received great answers. And when asking questions about something new, other questions come up.

One recommendation I received was buying a newer model Gasser instead of an older model DP. This is my first motorhome and I want something around 40 feet and want to spend no more than $100,000.00.

As I'm looking at used upper model Gassers, which i'd not done before, like Tiffin Allegro and Newmar Canyon Star. I found that the base models of Diesel Pushers are around the same price.

My question is "what's a better move for a new-be, a top of the line used Gasser or the used base model Diesel Pusher"?

Your help has been invaluable, thanks you!

[-Gramps-]

the silverback wrote:
Lots of talk here!! How about getting the floor plan that best suits your needs. than worry about gas or DP.

Very wise advice.

[the_silverback]

Lots of talk here!! How about getting the floor plan that best suits your needs. than worry about gas or DP.

[ncrowley]

Since you are looking at 40 feet, I would go with and older diesel. You have gotten a lot of good information from others. I knew I wanted something between 36 and 40 feet and decided that I wanted a diesel so I did not have any issues with weight and I could easily pull any vehicle I wanted to.

[barmcd]

-Gramps- wrote:

barmcd wrote:

enblethen wrote:
Many posters are jumping out and saying for a first rig to get a forty foot DP.
How many of you actually started with a forty footers or how many worked your way up?
I have seen many low mileage used DP with very low miles because the original owner had difficulties and gave up.

I thought the question was top of the line gasser or bottom of the line diesel pusher, not best starter coach?

That is okay, I should not have taken offence so easily.

Derrick

No worries.

[Mr_Mark1]

-Gramps- wrote:
Don,

I have owned the coach for nine years. It may have cost more than most gas buyers wanted to spend, the marketing may have not worked but the design is very good. There are hundreds of them still on the road (not that you would know if you saw one), very few are for sale anywhere because most owners keep them. I met an owner of a Winnie UFO yesterday. He pulled in from Roanoke on his way to Key West. Loves his GP.

My coach is 39.5 feet long, 22.5 tires, tows 10,000 lbs Allison 2000 tranny, and climbs a 7 percent grade faster than most motorhomes or trucks. It also has a computer controlled counter-weighted torsion box suspension that keeps it upright on tight curves. It has quad piston pressurized brakes and it will stop faster from 60 to 0 than a dp the same size.

Gramps, I think a Gas Pusher is a neat idea and I'm glad that you like yours.

But, a 60 to 0 stop comparison has to be done by weight, not size.

Our 45 ft. DP has a 'retarder' with 6 speeds. Most other DP'ers will have a 2 or 3 speed jake brake. The six speed retarder is stronger.

You will not find a 55,500 lb. gasser like our DP. We can stop extremely quick for our weight when using our 6 speed retarder, it has automatic activation when using the service brakes.

MM.

[Mondooker]

Thanks msturtz, That is quite a post with great information, thank you!

[kalynzoo]

Where are you going, what do you want to do, will you vacation close to home, will you travel the country, will you tow a small car, do you need to tow a large car (big family) or will you be towing your boat?????
I have always previously had gas higher end RVs, (for about 30 years). The Holiday Rambler 454, the Pace Arrows, and the last an Adventurer. All great coaches. All served the family well. All were purchased new. Personally, if my choice was a new high end gasser or an older diesel, I'd take the new gas RV. I really like my current Tiffin Allegro RED (rear engine diesel)38ft. It would definitely be above your price interest range. You could probably get a really well equipped new gas Winnebago or Tiffin (or many other brands) at or close to your price point. Other than the MH being much noisier on the road, especially on hills, having a rougher ride, and having a smaller tow capacity, they were great as far as livability, and camping comfort.
JMHO
Happy Trails.

[Mondooker]

Thanks Derrick!

[-Gramps-]

Don,

I have owned the coach for nine years. It may have cost more than most gas buyers wanted to spend, the marketing may have not worked but the design is very good. There are hundreds of them still on the road (not that you would know if you saw one), very few are for sale anywhere because most owners keep them. I met an owner of a Winnie UFO yesterday. He pulled in from Roanoke on his way to Key West. Loves his GP.

My coach is 39.5 feet long, 22.5 tires, tows 10,000 lbs Allison 2000 tranny, and climbs a 7 percent grade faster than most motorhomes or trucks. It also has a computer controlled counter-weighted torsion box suspension that keeps it upright on tight curves. It has quad piston pressurized brakes and it will stop faster from 60 to 0 than a dp the same size.

[msturtz]

We started with a gas class C and the experience is similar.

Class A gas have: Spring suspension, shorter fuel range (80 gallon fuel tank vs 100 - 150 on a diesel) , and depending on the manufacturer can be very loud. It depends on how long you travel away from hookups. There is no question that diesel engines last longer.

Class A gas pros:

• Lots of floor plans available
• Lots of inventory
• Lower initial cost
• May have disc brakes
• Lots of floor plans available
  

Class A gas cons:

• Poor towing capacity typically no more than 5,000#
• Very loud inside depending on floor and doghouse insulation
• Longer rear overhang (be careful getting fuel)
• More frequent service than diesel
• Service centers are typically only at Ford Truck and motorhome shops that have limited hours of operation
• Harsher ride with spring suspension (Lots of squeaks and rattles)
• Coach systems are not as integrated
• May need suspension and or steering upgrades depending on the manufacturer. (Safe T Plus, Roadmaster Reflex Steering stabilizer, etc.)
• Lower fuel economy less than 10 MPG is common 5 - 8 is very common in older units (Worse if towing a toad)
• Shorter range typically 300 - 500 miles
• Smaller tanks (80 gallon fuel is common, 30 - 80 gallon fresh water, 40 or less gallon grey and black, 10 - 30 gallons of propane)
  

Class A diesel pusher benefits:

• Quiet ride with almost no engine noise
• Soft stable ride due to full air suspension
• Typically have well integrated coach systems
• Automatic Generator start (depends on year)
• Panoramic front view
• Very quiet diesel generator (1800 RPM vs. 3600 RPM)
• Excellent turning radius for the size of the coach (a 33’ DP will usually have a 208” wheelbase and a 55 degree wheel cut and can turn around in a standard street)
• Fantastic, fuel capacity (Typically starts at 90 Gallons and goes up to 200 gallons of diesel depending on chassis) gives a realistic range of 1,000 miles on flat ground.
• Excellent water tank capacity – typically starting at 90 gallons and ending up at about 150 gallons
• Other tanks are also usually larger
• Well integrated coach systems
• More living space for a given coach size
• Engine exhaust braking system (Pac Brake, variable vane turbo or other great system) These types of brake systems can hold a coach and toad on a long down grade without using the service brakes
• Usually any truck diesel shop can work on them and many are open 24x7
• Chassis and drivetrain last a very long time
• Long service intervals
• Better manufacturer support
• Have tow ratings starting at 5,000# to 50,000#, depending on coach some very inexpensive units have tow ratings of 10,000#
• Large battery banks (4 large house batteries and 2 chassis batteries)
• Large residential refrigerator (less common on older units)
• Heated wet bay
• Neatly run wiring (Some high end well made gas coaches have neatly run wiring)
• Weight ratings starting at about 26,000 GVWR up to 55,000# GVWR with a tag axle with GCWR ratings of 30,000 up to 80,000
• Better fuel economy for similar sized units

Class A diesel pusher cons:

• Limited inventory
• Higher initial cost
• Higher cost per hour for service
• Typically more complex due to better integrated systems
• Limited floor plans (I only found a few floor plans that had bunk beds and a 10,000# tow rating)

The best thing to do is to drive both on a LONG test drive including up a steep hill(s). A DP with air ride will be very quiet compared to a gas coach. There are people on forums that will state that you can exceed the GCWR or GVWR and you can't. Buy the size of coach you need.

[-Gramps-]

barmcd wrote:

enblethen wrote:
Many posters are jumping out and saying for a first rig to get a forty foot DP.
How many of you actually started with a forty footers or how many worked your way up?
I have seen many low mileage used DP with very low miles because the original owner had difficulties and gave up.

I thought the question was top of the line gasser or bottom of the line diesel pusher, not best starter coach?

That is okay, I should not have taken offence so easily.

Derrick

[DSDP_Don]

Let's be realistic.....rear engine gassers didn't work well and were not marketable. Just because you have one of the few still running, doesn't mean they were a good design.

[-Gramps-]

mike brez wrote:

-Gramps- wrote:
How about considering the best of both a Rear GAS Pusher?

Adventurer LTD...GAS pusher.

If it was that great they would still be making them and selling like hot cakes.

Now that is one blanket statement. The economy killed the large block Chevy engine and that killed off Workhorse for awhile, but they and the rear gas are on the way back.

It just so happens that I own the best gas coach ever made in my opinion. It is quiet, stops on a dime, a joy to drive and doesn't have the maintenance costs of a diesel. If the coach were made now it would be in the 200k range, I was told that by a manufacturers rep for Newmar who is very familiar with my coach.

[Mondooker]

Sorry Gramps, I did not wish to offend!

[barmcd]

enblethen wrote:
Many posters are jumping out and saying for a first rig to get a forty foot DP.
How many of you actually started with a forty footers or how many worked your way up?
I have seen many low mileage used DP with very low miles because the original owner had difficulties and gave up.

I thought the question was top of the line gasser or bottom of the line diesel pusher, not best starter coach?