Can't Get VueCube Flex to Work in Canada

[hhornig]

I have the VueCube Flex automatic dish, but it will not work in Canada. The scanner locks on Satellites, but the reciever says it can't find signal. It worked OK in the states and when we were only a few miles in Canada, but now it won't work. Is this a short coming of the system or am I doing something wrong??

[Bill_Satellite]

You don't need a Trav'ler but you need more than a dome. A regular full sized dome should get DirecTV programming to at least the line along which Lake Louise is located. The smaller VueCube antenna will not make it that far. If you move to an 18" antenna you should be able to make Jasper at least for the DirecTV SD programming from 101. If you want to get all of the DTV programming you are likely going to need one of the oval 18x24"(?) dishes either roof mounted or on a tripod plus a clear view to the satellite(s).

[wmoses]

docj wrote:
We have a Trav'ler SK3005 which we have converted to SWM.

Thanks. A bit rich for me I am afraid.

[docj]

wmoses wrote:

docj wrote:
....My fully automatic Winegard Trav'ler had no problems locating the DTV satellites.

Which model do you have?

We have a Trav'ler SK3005 which we have converted to SWM.

[wmoses]

docj wrote:
....My fully automatic Winegard Trav'ler had no problems locating the DTV satellites.

Which model do you have?

[wmoses]

SCVJeff wrote:
While there are are satellite and cable receivers being designed with geo-location devices built-in for other reasons, currently they do not exist. I do broadcast TV and satellite for a living, so trust me when I say that there is no magic RF fence blocking signal regardless of what the providers, or even the government tells you, it just ain't true.

When the DirecTV guy told me what he did, I surmised that the receiver box must have some sort of geo-location device - not rocket science, its just GPS technology. That's why I did not dismiss his response. 🙂

Thanks for the on-point explanation.

[wmoses]

docj wrote:
The key point is that these are rules for Canadian citizens living in Canada and have nothing to do with a tourist driving his RV up here. Furthermore, I have seen a non-trivial number of DirecTV dishes mounted on houses here; I've been told by Canadians that all they need is a friend's US address they can use on their accounts.

When I did the above research I did note that there was nothing that specifically spoke to the case of a US-based RV travelling to Canada and getting signal there.

Now thanks to your and Ivylog's confirmation of actual being in Canada and getting signal to the receiver, I can conclude that my initial hunch was correct - I should be able to get signal whenever I go to visit family in So.Ontario, despite what the DirecTV person told me.

As I said before I had a satellite locked on, but could not get the signal that is why I called DirecTV after which he told me what he did. I don't claim to be an expert in satellite transmission. It so happens that the same receiver that failed in Ontario had worked before while in the US, BUT is now on the blink. Maybe it was going bad ever since I was in Ontario ... who knows.

NOW, I see that people are talking about dish size etc. I expect that the $150 dish that I use with my SD receiver is insufficient to pull in signals just over the border. I am skeptical about that - it should work. Used to work perfectly in Texas but I will admit to not trying it on any trip to Canada since stops are only overnighters.

I am about to resolve this bad receiver issue, and I don't want to spend more money on another satellite dish (rather do without satellite TV) - what are my options? I see Aridon notes that an 18" dish worked fine, as I would expect. 🙂

[Aridon]

Yeah the company has no idea your dish is up there and signal spills over in Canada just fine. We have had no problems with a Motosat dish up in Quebec City area and south.

We also used an 18 inch dish up near Sherbrooke area without issue.

Your vue cube dish is likely smaller than that and could be the issue.

What is the signal strength if you're locked on? Should be in the settings menu somewhere.

[Bill_Satellite]

VueQube = small dome, small reflector, low signal strength

Open face antenna (ground mount or Trav'ler) = No dome, full sized antenna, dramatically improved signal strength, reception in Canada of DirecTV signal but quite possibly not Dish Network.

[docj]

wmoses wrote:
As an adjunct to my previous message above, this is what I found from the Industry Canada (government) website -

5. Why does Canada have rules making the reception of American DTH programming illegal?
There are a number of reasons why Canada prohibits unauthorized decoding of encrypted subscription programming signals. A Canadian broadcaster who has purchased distribution rights for programs suffers financial loss if the same program provided on a U.S. satellite signal is decoded in Canada. Also, the subscriber base for Canadian DTH distribution undertakings is significantly diminished if Canadians subscribe to unauthorized American DTH services. The importation of American DTH equipment and the purchase of American subscriptions ultimately threatens jobs and growth in the Canadian broadcasting industry.

The link is here for those interested in reading the legal reasons why the signal may not be received.

The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission is a public organisation in Canada with mandate as a regulatory agency for broadcasting and telecommunications. It was created in 1976 when it took over responsibility for regulating telecommunication carriers.

The key point is that these are rules for Canadian citizens living in Canada and have nothing to do with a tourist driving his RV up here. Furthermore, I have seen a non-trivial number of DirecTV dishes mounted on houses here; I've been told by Canadians that all they need is a friend's US address they can use on their accounts.

[docj]

Ivylog wrote:
I just finished three weeks in western Canada so you might want to look at my two posts above. One might think that going 2000 miles further north from a Sat that's 22,000 miles away would decrease the signal strength by 10%. Unfortunately this is not true for a Sat that is positioned over the equator because of the low angle (less than 25 degrees) and the big increase in the earth's atmosphere that the signal has to travel through.
In Canada just because your dish locks on the right Sat (101 in my case) you need a signal strength of over 70 to get a picture and 60 to get some sound. My fairly large dome sat dish found 101 with a signal strength of 75 in Baniff, but 200 miles further north in Jasper it would not produce a picture. Fortunately I have a modified Hugh's Net 1M dish that was able to get 101 with a 85+ signal so I was able to watch all of my usual US channels 400 miles from the US boarder.
I did not try and get HD as the signals from 99 and 103 are usually not as strong as 101. I though maybe a picture of the coverage area of those sats in my post above might help. What was I thinking.:S

We're not nearly as far north as Jasper (we're only at ~46N), but we are much further east of the satellite since the 101 bird sits over longitude 101 which I believe runs through Lubbock TX and we're currently at ~62W. We're currently having no trouble getting HD with our Trav'ler.

[docj]

chiefneon wrote:
Howdy!

I was told by a campground owner last year that the automatic satellite dish have a hard time locking onto a satellite because they move to fast. He stated that the manuel dish work much better locking onto the satellite. I did not get a chance to find out as I contacted DirecTv for help and they discontuined our service until which time we returned to the US.

"Happy Trails"
Chiefneon

That might qualify for the "stupid technical answer of the week"; I'm writing this from our site on Prince Edward Island. My fully automatic Winegard Trav'ler had no problems locating the DTV satellites.

[SCVJeff]

wmoses wrote:

SCVJeff wrote:
So there is now an RF fence along the border to prevent reception on the other side? Geeze, you learn something new every day.

Jeff - is it not possible that the satellite could be locked on but the signal is being blocked by the service provider? I thought the same way you did that's why I brought my receiver and antenna for the trip, not for extra ballast in the RV that's for sure.

The fact that I got the satellite but got no signal suggested something else was at play. The OP seems to have the same experience.

Maybe we should hear from someone who actually went to Canada and had success before dismissing the stated possibility?!

The service provider on either side of the border has no idea where that receiver is, that includes Mexico. While there are are satellite and cable receivers being designed with geo-location devices built-in for other reasons, currently they do not exist. I do broadcast TV and satellite for a living, so trust me when I say that there is no magic RF fence blocking signal regardless of what the providers, or even the government tells you, it just ain't true.

Signal is signal as far as auto-tracking antennas are concerned. Unless auto-pointers have Sat ID decoders built in, CAN lock onto other satellites and attempt to peak them not knowing what they are. Bill can answer how the Cube works and searches better than I, but this is what my AS-2003 started doing and was the reason I replaced it.

[Ivylog]

I just finished three weeks in western Canada so you might want to look at my two posts above. One might think that going 2000 miles further north from a Sat that's 22,000 miles away would decrease the signal strength by 10%. Unfortunately this is not true for a Sat that is positioned over the equator because of the low angle (less than 25 degrees) and the big increase in the earth's atmosphere that the signal has to travel through.
In Canada just because your dish locks on the right Sat (101 in my case) you need a signal strength of over 70 to get a picture and 60 to get some sound. My fairly large dome sat dish found 101 with a signal strength of 75 in Baniff, but 200 miles further north in Jasper it would not produce a picture. Fortunately I have a modified Hugh's Net 1M dish that was able to get 101 with a 85+ signal so I was able to watch all of my usual US channels 400 miles from the US boarder.
I did not try and get HD as the signals from 99 and 103 are usually not as strong as 101. I though maybe a picture of the coverage area of those sats in my post above might help. What was I thinking.:S

[Bill_Satellite]

There is no block and there is no block possible. If the signal exists it can be received. That is an absolute reality. The various companies do adjust their broadcast signal where they can so the signal from their satellite covers only the area of expected service. However, that cannot be controlled exactly. If you look at the coverage map for DirecTV it is quite different from Dish Network (which is why your service provider is very important in this discussion). If the signal is there, you will receive it and you will watch TV. If the signal is not there, you will not and cannot.

[wmoses]

Bill.Satellite wrote:
Yes, I have been in Canada and yes I have received a signal. However, I was not using a VueCube.
The Dish Network service is not available as far into Canada as DirecTV so the service you are using is also important to know.

Bill - when were you in Canada and able to receive the programming? I was there in 2012 but I get the sense from the information that I was able to research that the legal block might have been fairly recent (?) to that time. I have not been in Canada since that time.