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Flexible Coax

SDHobo
Explorer
Explorer
Does anyone know of a brand of RG-6 Coax that is highly flexible? The one I've got now gets very stiff below about 50 deg F. It gets very upset with me if I try to uncoil it. I tried uncoiling it and laying it out in the sun, but as soon as it cooled down, I had a 25ft stick!
Thanks, Dick
'08 Fleetwood Providence 40X
w/ 2016 Ford Fiesta SE (w/Navi) Toad
Dick and Mary
Random Kids, Grandkids and Great Grandkids
17 REPLIES 17

SCVJeff
Explorer
Explorer
Solid Signal Flash Deal of the Day
Jeff - WA6EQU
'06 Itasca Meridian 34H, CAT C7/350

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
Gdetrailer wrote:


When our runs exceeded 200 ft we switched to individual RG-11 along with individual motor/polarizer wires.. Talk about stiff, RG-11 is about 1/2" in diameter..

Pick you poison..

You can't have your cake and eat it too..


What I do when I need to buy coax for the job is get out my chart, on non-linkable paper, and decide what to buy from the info there.

I used to have a post-able version of that chart.. But alas, Can no longer find it. But I still have at least 3 different books with it.

It is from Belkin Cables,, and my Shource is the ARRL Handbook,, assortd editions.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times

SCVJeff
Explorer
Explorer
Tom_M wrote:
One popular brand of coax is CommScope. Here are specs from their web site:

750 mhz
RG-59 6.97db/100ft
RG-6 5.65db/100ft

1000 mhz
RG-59 8.12db/100ft
RG-6 6.55db/100ft

The high end of broadcast TV is channel 51 which is 700 mhz. I don't know what satellite uses between dish and receiver.

The fact that much of the coax uses copper clad steel is not much of a factor.
Satellite L-Band runs from 950 - 1450MHz, so if you take the 750MHz loss specs and double it, that will give you worst case L-Band losses providing the coax is linear. And if it's not, trash it anyway.
Jeff - WA6EQU
'06 Itasca Meridian 34H, CAT C7/350

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
wa8yxm wrote:
You said "Grades" do not matter it is insulator (Which is, of course, one of the factors that constitutes grades) and then said the cheap stuff uses the lesser (higher loss) insulator.

Could not agree more. But do re-think what you said.

High Grade cable uses multiple shields,,, It uses the high grad insulator and has lower loss... Oh, by the way, My defination of HIGH GRADE is Low Loss.


"High grades" as in "Quad shielding" ACTUALLY has a HIGHER LOSS..

I would suggest you be careful about recommending quad shield as being "higher quality" since it DOES have HIGHER LOSS per ft.

RG-6 quad shield decreases the inside diameter of the center insulation and wire making it near the same loss as RG-59 with foil shield.

In what I was talking about is the MATERIALS INSIDE THE COAX.. FOAM INSULATION coax has lower loss and faster propagation, it ALSO cost more than NON FOAM insulation..

I reality for what the OP is doing there is no real reason or need for Quad shield nor is it required.

Standard single foil shield is perfectly acceptable for OTA through sat receiver usage.. That IS what was industry standard for the Big Dish "C" band systems that I installed back in the late 1980-1990s..

The ONLY difference with the big dish systems was the coax we used was twin RG-6, plus 12ga motor wires which also included position sensor wires and polarizer wires all in a flat cable.. That cable was also frequency swept above 2ghz to insure lowest loss possible..

When our runs exceeded 200 ft we switched to individual RG-11 along with individual motor/polarizer wires.. Talk about stiff, RG-11 is about 1/2" in diameter..

Pick you poison..

You can't have your cake and eat it too..

Tom_M1
Explorer
Explorer
One popular brand of coax is CommScope. Here are specs from their web site:

750 mhz
RG-59 6.97db/100ft
RG-6 5.65db/100ft

1000 mhz
RG-59 8.12db/100ft
RG-6 6.55db/100ft

The high end of broadcast TV is channel 51 which is 700 mhz. I don't know what satellite uses between dish and receiver.

The fact that much of the coax uses copper clad steel is not much of a factor.
Tom
2005 Born Free 24RB
170ah Renogy LiFePo4 drop-in battery 400 watts solar
Towing 2016 Mini Cooper convertible on tow dolly
Minneapolis, MN

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
You said "Grades" do not matter it is insulator (Which is, of course, one of the factors that constitutes grades) and then said the cheap stuff uses the lesser (higher loss) insulator.

Could not agree more. But do re-think what you said.

High Grade cable uses multiple shields,,, It uses the high grad insulator and has lower loss... Oh, by the way, My defination of HIGH GRADE is Low Loss.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
wa8yxm wrote:
Both RG-59 and RG-6 come in assorted grades and quality

The difference can be far, far, greater than the difference above.

I do not have the chart on this computer but will try to find it...

http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/coax-chart.htm

That is not the chart I was looking for but it is a start.


It isn't "grades" or "quality" that makes a difference in loss.. It is the MATERIAL that is used for the insulation between the center and the braid/shield (solid insulation has a different propagation speed and can have a higher loss than "foam" insulation).

Solid insulation is OFTEN used in the cheaper "discount" premade cut to length with ends cables, but not ALWAYS..

For that reason I DO mention to CONSULT THE MANUFACTURERS BOOK FOR THE ACTUAL SPECIFICATIONS..

The reason as to why I gave that link is pretty simple..

It ILLUSTRATES very clearly the losses and how much it varies between RG-59, RG-6 for a given length AND FREQUENCY.. And sat receivers make extensive use of 900 mhz - 1.2 ghz areas which is why RG-6 is the recommend cable to use..

Not saying that RG-59 can't be used (it can) but to do so the length MUST be considerably SHORTER than RG-6.

SCVJeff
Explorer
Explorer
Tom_M wrote:
You could try using RG-59 coax. It's thinner than RG-6 and would be easier to manage. The down-side is there's more signal loss. A friend of mine is using 100 feet for his Dish satellite.

If you are dead set on RG-6, you could check a brand called Canare. They make some very flexible cable. I don't know if they make a direct replacement for RG-6. If they do, I don't know if standard F connectors would work.
Duh... Even though I'm in the TV business I never think about video coax for RF even though it's swept flat to 3GHz. Camera coax isn't cheap but probably better than typical RF RG6. Belden, Gepco, Carol, and Clarke all have knockoffs of the Canare Superflex, but the Canare is the nicest IMO. There are F connectors that fit but probably not the standard ones. Might be easier to go BNC and use adapters
Jeff - WA6EQU
'06 Itasca Meridian 34H, CAT C7/350

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
Both RG-59 and RG-6 come in assorted grades and quality

The difference can be far, far, greater than the difference above.

I do not have the chart on this computer but will try to find it...

http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/coax-chart.htm

That is not the chart I was looking for but it is a start.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
Tom_M wrote:
You could try using RG-59 coax. It's thinner than RG-6 and would be easier to manage. The down-side is there's more signal loss. A friend of mine is using 100 feet for his Dish satellite.

If you are dead set on RG-6, you could check a brand called Canare. They make some very flexible cable. I don't know if they make a direct replacement for RG-6. If they do, I don't know if standard F connectors would work.


While RG-59 could be used with a sat system, it is not recommended due to very high loss per ft. You would have to use less than half the length of RG-6 and even that may be pressing things.

In a nutshell, the LNB at the dish does a block "down conversion" of the actual Sat frequencies. Basically dropping 12 Ghz Ku band to 1 ghz area..

The coax in between the LNB and receiver NEEDS to have as little loss as possible.

RG-59 has 4.05 DB of loss for 50ft vs RG-6 at 3.27 DB for the same 50ft at 1 ghz.

Found a cool online calculator (keeping in mind that is a generic way of getting the losses, coax construction and type of materials used can and will affect the real losses so when in doubt consult the manufacturers books)..

HERE

You can get RG-59 with a stranded center however you would have to really dig hard to find "F" fittings that would work with it since "F" fittings require a solid wire to work.

You would almost have to use BNC fittings then an adapter to "F" to make a stranded RG-59 cable to work. That would add additional losses to your chain.

You can also check to see what the core is, cheapo coax uses copper COATED STEEL WIRE which is much stiffer.

Better RG-6 will use 100% copper wire in the center and tends to be a lot more flexible..

I couldn't find any stranded copper center in RG-6, not saying that it isn't made but may be hard to find.. Belden wire may have 75 ohm coax with similar losses as RG-6 if you don't mind doing some searching through their catalogs.. Those may be online now days (I didn't search).

Tom_M1
Explorer
Explorer
You could try using RG-59 coax. It's thinner than RG-6 and would be easier to manage. The down-side is there's more signal loss. A friend of mine is using 100 feet for his Dish satellite.

If you are dead set on RG-6, you could check a brand called Canare. They make some very flexible cable. I don't know if they make a direct replacement for RG-6. If they do, I don't know if standard F connectors would work.
Tom
2005 Born Free 24RB
170ah Renogy LiFePo4 drop-in battery 400 watts solar
Towing 2016 Mini Cooper convertible on tow dolly
Minneapolis, MN

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
What can I say Hobo.. Folks with ID's like Mine (WA8YXM) Tend to be CUSTOMERS of that story (And as a matter of fact I am)

I also shop All Electronics, MFJ (They made my wrist watch,,Which I never have to set), GIGA-Parts, DX-Engineering,, Amateur Electronis Supply and more.

Now if you would like to make that store name easier to remember...

go to http://www.arrl.org

Find a club near you

Take a license course and exam

And go shopping.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times

SDHobo
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks for the info folks, I guess that my MH just came with the cheap cable.

Special thanks to wa8yxm (John). I have been beating my head looking for the name of that store. Thanks for the help.

Dick
'08 Fleetwood Providence 40X
w/ 2016 Ford Fiesta SE (w/Navi) Toad
Dick and Mary
Random Kids, Grandkids and Great Grandkids

garry1p
Explorer
Explorer
If you "roll" it up on a reel instead of coiling it you will have better luck.

If it is real cold attach one end to a fixed object when unrolling and keep the cable tight.
Garry1p


1990 Holiday Rambler Aluma Lite XL
454 on P-30 Chassis
1999 Jeep Cherokee sport