My Wifi Posts have been wrong!! I admit it.

[westernrvparkow]

In the past I have frequently posted in response to people saying "If McDonalds can provide fast, free wifi, why can't an RV Park?" by replying that McDonalds doesn't have numerous guests sitting in their booths streaming internet porn. I was mistaken. http://fortune.com/2016/07/15/mcdonalds-just-made-surfing-for-porn-harder/

[OutdoorPhotogra]

I see more and more hotels going to a two tiered model: throttled free access for email and basic browsing and $10 or more per day for hi-speed internet. It can be a revenue generator for the park.

The problem with bring your own service is you have to get cell/4G+ service which I haven't gotten at many parks, partly because the cell tower is jammed with too many users just like the wifi. I've stayed at a few KOAs that limited each site to one or two devices at a time and required a code. I was put off at first but quickly embraced it because I actually could get fast enough internet to send photos or load sports scores.

I really don't care about streaming video in a campground. I keep a few DVD's and some movies on a hard drive and maybe once in a rain storm actually watched something.

I'll use McD's or Starbucks to update apps or download podcasts. We'll see if the originally linked article will stop that from being a viable option.

[Naio]

greenrvgreen wrote:
Well then clearly RV parks should offer private booths, by the quarter hour.

green wins the thread :B

Me, I just download my movies between midnight and 4am, like a decent human being. Wake up, set up the download, go back to sleep.

[greenrvgreen]

Well then clearly RV parks should offer private booths, by the quarter hour.

[westernrvparkow]

greenrvgreen wrote:
Er, back to the question of free park wifi, such a service was originally offered as an enticement to customers. .

Yes, a park could spend the money to install metered, high speed paid connections. And all the customers who previously showed up for free wifi would go to McDonald's instead.

But not if they want to watch porn, which was the original point of the thread. If the tipping point for a park gaining customers is whether or not the wifi is free and better than Mickey D's, parks now have a leg up on the Hamburgler if they still allow porn.;)

[greenrvgreen]

Er, back to the question of free park wifi, such a service was originally offered as an enticement to customers. Technology and customer preferences completely swamped the original, paltry offerings, and it's simply not reasonable to expect high speeds from crowded narrow band. As said, anyone who expects a high-quality internet connection should bring their own high quality internet connection--and stop complaining.

Yes, a park could spend the money to install metered, high speed paid connections. And all the customers who previously showed up for free wifi would go to McDonald's instead. And by going there for free wifi they would happily spend ten dollars an hour on menu items for the "free" service.

My point is that parks don't have a lot of money to throw around and don't have a clear mandate from the customer. All the evidence of the marketplace says that customers would rather have an insufficient service dressed up as "free", than pay up front for a quality service they say they want. Those of us who actually want a quality service pay for our own service and equipment and bring it with us.

[westernrvparkow]

creeper wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:



There is a number of reasons for that.
1. Park employees have much more to do than monitor internet usage
2. The wifi services generally aren't managed from the front desk
3. Most guests would find such a system between "Creepy" (right up your alley, according to your screen name) and downright an invasion of their privacy. I can't imagine the bad reviews I would get if people believed we were monitoring their wifi. The average person would believe we were reading their emails, looking at their photos and stealing their banking information. If we used such a system (not saying we do or don't), it wouldn't be anywhere visible to the guests.

Yeah, but none of those reasons actually apply.

1. Yes, the last campground we pulled into, and many more, the desk person was watching TV or playing on their cellphone. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands to post.

2. A controller can be put anywhere if it's hardware, or more likely you'll just remote into the server and watch it from anywhere. Do you really think IT guys are at all the physical locations where they set up internet portals? If you do, then you're sadly mistaken. Many just use cloud based controllers/ monitors. Most are just emailed by the controller when part of the system goes down. If one of my access points goes down it emails me.

3. Most guests don't wouldn't even understand the system as do most campground owners judging by the quality of their internet. If they were really worried about their information being stolen then they wouldn't be using public wifi without a VPN, but most don't even know what a VPN is. You give them too much credit.

You're not monitoring what they are doing, just the amount of data. Just like cellular companies do. Even if it would visible nearly all wouldn't even know what they were looking at.

If you boot them you can just tell them the system boots those who use massive amounts of data. Only the abusers would call you complaining that they got booted.

There are tons of ways to explain it without insulting or alarming them, a skill you seem to lack based on your personal attack towards me. Creeper and Creepy aren't even close in definitions.

What's creepy is someone can be so thin skinned as to have what I posted offend them. And you think you can explain to people that you really aren't monitoring what they are doing if there is a screen in full view of the guests showing the internet is being monitored.
Of course I know that such a system does not have to be in an area accessible to guests, but your post was you have never seen a monitoring system in place. You therefore assumed that those parks do not have a monitoring and metering system. Can't have it both ways.
No, I don't work 24/7 but I bet I work circles around most people.

Definition #4 Oxford dictionary. creeper: a person, typically a man, whose behavior toward or interest in someone is regarded as unwelcome and socially inappropriate:

That sounds pretty creepy to me.

[rockhillmanor]

Solution Buy your own internet service device.

2004 bought a Sprint Mobile USB Broadband. Lucky me with unlimited data.

2006 went full time.

2016 STILL using the 'same' unit for 64 bucks a month grandfathered in for unlimited data.

Have never been with out good internet connection the entire 10 years full timing in my RV with a a 12 year old device!!

Just saying you don't need $100+ a month electronics to enjoy your own internet connection when RV'ing.

[creeper]

westernrvparkowner wrote:



There is a number of reasons for that.
1. Park employees have much more to do than monitor internet usage
2. The wifi services generally aren't managed from the front desk
3. Most guests would find such a system between "Creepy" (right up your alley, according to your screen name) and downright an invasion of their privacy. I can't imagine the bad reviews I would get if people believed we were monitoring their wifi. The average person would believe we were reading their emails, looking at their photos and stealing their banking information. If we used such a system (not saying we do or don't), it wouldn't be anywhere visible to the guests.

Yeah, but none of those reasons actually apply.

1. Yes, the last campground we pulled into, and many more, the desk person was watching TV or playing on their cellphone. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands to post.

2. A controller can be put anywhere if it's hardware, or more likely you'll just remote into the server and watch it from anywhere. Do you really think IT guys are at all the physical locations where they set up internet portals? If you do, then you're sadly mistaken. Many just use cloud based controllers/ monitors. Most are just emailed by the controller when part of the system goes down. If one of my access points goes down it emails me.

3. Most guests don't wouldn't even understand the system as do most campground owners judging by the quality of their internet. If they were really worried about their information being stolen then they wouldn't be using public wifi without a VPN, but most don't even know what a VPN is. You give them too much credit.

You're not monitoring what they are doing, just the amount of data. Just like cellular companies do. Even if it would visible nearly all wouldn't even know what they were looking at.

If you boot them you can just tell them the system boots those who use massive amounts of data. Only the abusers would call you complaining that they got booted.

There are tons of ways to explain it without insulting or alarming them, a skill you seem to lack based on your personal attack towards me. Creeper and Creepy aren't even close in definitions.

[westernrvparkow]

creeper wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:

X2!

Nor should they have to. They offered it as an added perk when more and more people started using the internet to communicate with family while they were on the road. And sadly now many campers can not due to others hogging bandwidth.

CG wifi was NEVER meant for people to sit their dead butts in their RV and stream and game and download cause they, 'could for free'. :R

Try thinking about the retired couple simply trying to communicate and keep in touch with their family while they are traveling that they are ok while you are streaming a movie.

ONCE AGAIN, the inconsiderate its all about me camper ruins it for the responsible campers. 😞

I have yet to find a campground that has a wifi controller up and running to view by the desk personal.

There is a number of reasons for that.
1. Park employees have much more to do than monitor internet usage
2. The wifi services generally aren't managed from the front desk
3. Most guests would find such a system between "Creepy" (right up your alley, according to your screen name) and downright an invasion of their privacy. I can't imagine the bad reviews I would get if people believed we were monitoring their wifi. The average person would believe we were reading their emails, looking at their photos and stealing their banking information. If we used such a system (not saying we do or don't), it wouldn't be anywhere visible to the guests.

[creeper]

rockhillmanor wrote:

X2!

Nor should they have to. They offered it as an added perk when more and more people started using the internet to communicate with family while they were on the road. And sadly now many campers can not due to others hogging bandwidth.

CG wifi was NEVER meant for people to sit their dead butts in their RV and stream and game and download cause they, 'could for free'. :R

Try thinking about the retired couple simply trying to communicate and keep in touch with their family while they are traveling that they are ok while you are streaming a movie.

ONCE AGAIN, the inconsiderate its all about me camper ruins it for the responsible campers. 😞

Agreed,

But, they added it as a perk as a way to draw in customers. If you're going to have it as a draw, and put it on your brochure advertising free wifi, then you have a responsibility to at least make some attempt at having something that will work. Not to stream movies, that's where bandwidth limits come in and lease renewals at a bare minimum will help the situation.

You can now get commercial grade wifi equipment for about the same as an upper end consumer wifi unit. Putting a $79 Linksys router, a bare minimum internet package from your ISP and expecting that to satisfy your needs is just fraud. It will never handle the load.

We stayed at a campground that had huge signs on their property for passerby to see "FREE WIFI". We soon discovered that the wifi was not working for some of our devices and speaking with other campers half were online and the other half were not. I accessed their Linksys router, which still had the default user name and password. I reconfigured the router and everyone was able to get on. I then instructed the campground owner the next day on how to setup up his wifi.

Are people inconsiderate? ABSOLUTELY. Will we change that NO WAY. Just look at how many people abuse Walmart. It comes down the campground owner being a little involved in their wifi. It's so very easy to look at a set up by mine and instantly see who's streaming and gobbling up the data.

There are many very simple ways to stop the abusers, but the campgrounds simply don't care. It's easier to just say, "too many people streaming" and leave it at that.

It's actually pretty simple to have a useable wifi system until at least the heaviest of loads. No system can't be overloaded. But, if they hand out wifi rules, warn people about streaming and tell them that abusers will be blocked for one day. Then you can keep your system up and running. I have yet to find a campground that has a wifi controller up and running to view by the desk personal.

[westernrvparkow]

pianotuna wrote:
We are not all rich. At least I am definitely not. Cell phone companies in Canada have predatory pricing. Last night I, by accident, was on the wrong device. I went a measley 1 gig over--and I got a bill for $50.00.

rockhillmanor wrote:

Having your own internet service is now no longer too expensive for the average RV'er.

IMHO Buck up. You RV, you should be able to afford your own internet service. And quit whining about poor wifi at the few CG's that still offer it.

You have hit upon the biggest problem. You now view 1 gigabit of data as Measly and you apparently used that much data in a very short period of time ("last night" were your words). When you have a hundred or more users on a wifi system at any given time, each of them using a measly gigabyte or two would overwhelm most any system. And by the way, why are you watching internet porn?;) (the original context of this thread)

[joebedford]

Personally, I think the solution is to charge a nominal amount for wifi. Bandwidth hogging should take care of itself.

I know it doesn't in badly provisioned parks: we stayed in a park for a month that prohibited adding internet to preexisting cable connections but provided $$ internet that was horrible (Tengo again). We had to sit in our truck and use its wifi.

[rockhillmanor]

creeper wrote:
....
Rarely does a campground a. use more then some consumer grade router that is placed in the office

X2!

Nor should they have to. They offered it as an added perk when more and more people started using the internet to communicate with family while they were on the road. And sadly now many campers can not due to others hogging bandwidth.

CG wifi was NEVER meant for people to sit their dead butts in their RV and stream and game and download cause they, 'could for free'. :R

Try thinking about the retired couple simply trying to communicate and keep in touch with their family while they are traveling that they are ok while you are streaming a movie.

ONCE AGAIN, the inconsiderate its all about me camper ruins it for the responsible campers. 😞

[creeper]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

This actually doesn't help in park situations. The data requests will just stack up, actually slowing the system down further. The problem is in a RV Park situation, people are totally content to start downloads or uploads and just walk away. So it takes an hour to send granny 100 photos or 3 minutes of HD video you shot, you don't care. However, wifi is not a steady stream. There are times when the demand exceeds the capacity of the network, and then a few seconds later the system is totally idle. If you go with the simple bandwidth throttles, the system cannot "burst" data in those idle periods, so the downloads and uploads take longer. This wouldn't be a problem, except for the fact that all wifi communications are two way, all the time. Your download constantly asks your computer if you are receiving the data. The longer the download takes, the more of these communications must be sent, increasing the traffic.

Actually it is helpful and is implemented in many commercial locations. Without throttling the users, you can get a few users hogging much of the bandwidth and leave everyone else without a useable connection. If you limit each user to 1meg down and half that up, which is enough to use VOIP or Skype as well as some youtube then it will be much longer before the system is bogged down by excess users. Nor do they leave enough overhead to deal with the increased traffic.

Nor are all the user on at the same time. Many guys use 60% of users who are actually active and using bandwidth at any given time to figure out bandwidth allotments for a specific internet connection.

Nor do the campgrounds actually monitor their networks and boot users who are hogging the system or force their computers to get new leases after a specific amount of time and boot them from their bandwidth hogging ways. When the figure out they can't stream TV all night they will just give up. That's what my bandwidth hogging friends do, they stream the park wifi until they can stream no more then move over to their cell signal.

There are many different ways to skin a cat, just blanket throttle is just one way and you can let guests know from the onset that the system is throttled to 1mbps out of fairness and to forget streaming movies and TV, because it's free after all.

Rarely does a campground a. use more then some consumer grade router that is placed in the office or b. have the system load balanced between 2 ISPs. It all depends on how much they want to invest in their system and monitor the health of that system when it's up.

Just as a test I limited my bandwidth to 1 meg and watched a youtube video. It reduced the speed from my un-throttled rate of 6.61 mbps to a rate of 64.55 Kbps. Which is an average of the connection. The burst pattern was basically identical. The lower end of youtube delivery is 210kbps.