Advice for towing a new TT with a 2004 4-door Tundra

[Gillkid]

I know this gets exhausting for you guys to answer, but I'm new to the TT world. I thought I had a pretty good grasp on these things and then I found this forum and realized I only know a fraction of what you guys know. So, this is what I have and what I would like to get. I need to know if I'm going down the right track or if I'm way off on this one.

I just recently bought a 2004 4-door Toyota Tundra. The owners manual has it rated to pull 6500#. I'm assuming it came from the factory with the towing package. I only assume that because the hitch and 7-pin plug look factory mounted. I havent had a chance to see if its wired for a brake controller. I understand that to be the only way to know if it has the factory tow package. Does that sound correct?

I am now looking (we are actually signing the papers this Saturday if we decide to buy it) at a 2014 Heartland TrailRunner with an empty weight of 4900#. My assumption was that I would add another 1000# after all the "extras", gear and full tanks. That would give me 500-600#s to play around with. Is this a fair assumption? One thing to consider, we are simple campers. We always try to take as little as possible with us. Doubt this matters much, but just an FYI.

Assuming that the TT weight is an issue, what's necessary to get this truck tow ready. I've already made plans to install a brake controller and a 2-point sway bar when we buy the camper. Is that enough? I keep seeing WD hitches mentioned on here and wondered if that was something I needed for such a light camper. Also, what's your take on a 2-point sway bar vs. a 4-point sway bar? I haven't found anything on this subject here. My buddy told me that the dealership talked him into buying a 4-point for his truck. Did the dude get swindled? If not, is it necessary for me to get a 4-point?

Once again, I do apologize to you guys for having to read through another post about towing, but its a very confusing subject for a newbie. I would also like to thank you guys in advance for the help. Your shared knowledge is much appreciated.

[kzspree320]

Gillkid wrote:
I can't emphasize enough that we are very simple people/campers. The kids are getting bigger and need somewhere to sleep. Otherwise, we'd keep our popup. We spend very little time inside when we camp, so there's a lot we don't need/want.

I noticed a couple companies deal with all aluminum TT's that have similar floor plans with the one we wanted. Aside from the high price, what are the cons with these campers?

The aluminum framed trailers may be lighter. I have had a couple of aluminum framed campers. I don't think there are any cons to aluminum framed. I think you can get a trailer you want at the weight you can handle. As stated above, length is not your problem, rahter weight is. I looked at some smaller Rockwoods with a friend that was shopping. They had some pretty nice and light ones under 4K lbs. Good luck.

[2012Coleman]

Gillkid wrote:
Clearly, the right thing to do is not get this TT. Me and the DW are gonna go back to the drawing boards and figure out what we would like to sacrifice and go with something smaller. Once again, thanks a lot for all this info.

If you like popups, check out Trailmanor Poke around on the site as they have some large models that you should be able to tow.

[djsamuel]

Gillkid wrote:
I can't emphasize enough that we are very simple people/campers. The kids are getting bigger and need somewhere to sleep. Otherwise, we'd keep our popup. We spend very little time inside when we camp, so there's a lot we don't need/want.

I noticed a couple companies deal with all aluminum TT's that have similar floor plans with the one we wanted. Aside from the high price, what are the cons with these campers?

Check out the Camplite 21BHS, Queen bed, two bunks, and a dinette in the slideout. It is more basic looking than others, yet is very durable and has good numbers for weight (3500 lbs dry, 5000 lbs GVWR). We pull ours with a Ram 1500 with no problem at all.

It is more expensive, but we have yet to regret spending the extra money.

You can find more info by CLICKING HERE.

Check out some of the other models if that doesn't fit your needs.

[Gillkid]

I can't emphasize enough that we are very simple people/campers. The kids are getting bigger and need somewhere to sleep. Otherwise, we'd keep our popup. We spend very little time inside when we camp, so there's a lot we don't need/want.

I noticed a couple companies deal with all aluminum TT's that have similar floor plans with the one we wanted. Aside from the high price, what are the cons with these campers?

[John_Wayne]

I would also add to look for used in 2 to 3 years your going to find you want something different, floor plan etc. and you will take a BIG hit when trying to sell or trade. Very few people buy there ideal trailer the first time.

You could even rent different sizes and floor plan models to see what you like best and how the truck pulls each size and if you would be happy with the performance.

[Goldstalker]

Gillkid wrote:
Clearly, the right thing to do is not get this TT. Me and the DW are gonna go back to the drawing boards and figure out what we would like to sacrifice and go with something smaller. Once again, thanks a lot for all this info.

You don't have to sacrifice size so much, just find a lighter line. Check out the Shadow Cruiser and Funfinder lines from Cruiser RV.

http://www.cruiserrv.com/products/shadow-cruiser/floorplans

[Gillkid]

Clearly, the right thing to do is not get this TT. Me and the DW are gonna go back to the drawing boards and figure out what we would like to sacrifice and go with something smaller. Once again, thanks a lot for all this info.

[rexlion]

Can you do it? Probably. Can you do it safely? Well, more likely than not, but no guarantees. Should you do it? Probably not.

I'm a person who has pushed the envelope. I towed a 13' "egg" trailer 2000 miles with a Dodge Omni, back in the '80s when you could rent them from UHaul. Would I do it again? Not likely. I also towed a 23' Rockwood for 3 summers with a 2000 Mercury Mountaineer. Without an Equal-i-zer hitch, handling was downright scary. That TT was only about 4000 lbs loaded, but quite a strain on the old 220 HP V8. Worse still, the tongue was so heavy with a load of water, LP, Equal-izer hitch, and whatnot that I bent a rear spring on the truck. That tell you anything? 285 lb dry hitch weight rating turned into more than 600 lbs loaded, real fast.

Ok, if you want to know what your truck's rated for and whether it has factory tow package, trot down to the Toyota dealer and have them look up your VIN. They should be able to pull up exactly how your truck was configured from the factory, with every option on it. Then you can know your tow rating and your hitch weight rating.

The big problem I see is your hitch weight. You will probably exceed the hitch rating. And when you do that, you risk blowing out the rear tires or tearing the receiver off the truck. Does that sound like a safety concern? You bet.

With a 25' TT you would want some sway control of some kind. Add that weight to the total you're placing on the hitch.

I am assuming your truck has the V8. If it's the V6, it will really have its tongue hanging out. Even the V8 will be taxed with that much trailer behind it, but like you say for 90 miles at a moderate speed (say, 55 mph) it could tow it.

[kzspree320]

2012Coleman wrote:
I tow a 25' Coleman with a 2003 Tundra Access Cab - meaning the small rear doors. It has the towing package and the 4.7 V8. It is wired for the brake controller if you have the tow package. My TT weighs 1000 lbs less loaded than what you stated. I used the CAT scales and am just under specs. My towing experience is just OK. I did OK on my longest trip to Stone Mountain last year but that trip put me in the market for a 3/4 ton. Most of our stuff goes in the TT - It's me and the wife and a 5 year old. I imagine your payload is going to be less because you have the crew cab. And I have to agree, but it sounds like your Tundra will be overburdened. Work out the actual numbers using a CAT scale - and heed the advice here - you can pretty much weed out advice that states "you should be OK" or "I don't see an issue" Find out for yourself. If you feel that it may cut the mustard, then have the brakes overhauled, change all the fluids, espically the transmission and make sure the tires met OEM specs.

This sounds like good advice from someone with a truck trailer that is very similar (although 1,000# lighter).

Look in the drivers door jamb and there should be a label that states the tire information and also says something like "The weight of all passengers and all cargo should not exceed ______ pounds". This is your payload capacity. Subtract from this cargo carrying capacity the hitch weight of the TT when loaded (probably about 10-12% of total trailer weight), the weight of the hitch itself (about 70-100 # with bars), the weight of any cargo you put into the truck cab or the bed of the truck, the weight of any added accessories (such as bed covers, etc) - you now have the weight left for you and your family (including pets).

The only real way to know is to run the numbers. Good luck in your search for a nice trailer.

[2012Coleman]

I tow a 25' Coleman with a 2003 Tundra Access Cab - meaning the small rear doors. It has the towing package and the 4.7 V8. It is wired for the brake controller if you have the tow package. My TT weighs 1000 lbs less loaded than what you stated. I used the CAT scales and am just under specs. My towing experience is just OK. I did OK on my longest trip to Stone Mountain last year but that trip put me in the market for a 3/4 ton. Most of our stuff goes in the TT - It's me and the wife and a 5 year old. I imagine your payload is going to be less because you have the crew cab. And I have to agree, but it sounds like your Tundra will be overburdened. Work out the actual numbers using a CAT scale - and heed the advice here - you can pretty much weed out advice that states "you should be OK" or "I don't see an issue" Find out for yourself. If you feel that it may cut the mustard, then have the brakes overhauled, change all the fluids, espically the transmission and make sure the tires met OEM specs.

[6_7_tow_rig]

Gillkid wrote:
I really appreciate all this info. Is my concern here a lack of power or a compromise in safety? The lack of power doesn't concern me too much. 90% of my camping will be within 90 miles of my home. Hardly any hills to worry about. That being said, my wife and two kids will be riding with me and I have zero desire putting there lives in jeopardy.

I dont know that its necessarily a safety issue. I guess anyone could argue that being one pound over any weight number could be a safety risk. I am more speaking from experience when I had a similar setup as yours and just didn't like the way it handled due to lack of power. I say if you are set on this combo, try it out with the realization that a bigger truck may be in your future if this is something you truly enjoy.

I will go out on a limb and say if you keep it as light as possible, and dont care about taking your time on the hills you will be fine. Is it ideal? no. But I think it would work

[handye9]

Gillkid wrote:
So help me understand something that confuses me with all of this. If my truck is rated to pull 6800#s, why can't I tow 6800#s? I doubt Toyota would put out a rating that would compromise a customers safety.

Truck manufacturers use several factors, such as frame, brakes, power train, wheels, and tires, to determine a tow rating. They also use some of the same factors to determine a GVWR and payload rating. In most travel trailer cases, you will exceed payload and GVWR on the truck, before you reach the unrealistic tow rating.

Your Tundra probably could tow, a 6900 lb flatbed trailer, if the trailer had a low hitch weight (tripple axle) and it's own brakes.

Travel trailers are a different animal. They create a lot of wind resistance, and, put a lot of hitch weight on the truck.

Another weak link, may be your tires. Quite possible, you have "P" rated tires, which are designed for passenger comfort, not heavy towing. Passenger tires will have more sidewall flex than an "LT" type tire.

Since the truck left the factory (a few years / owners ago), anything that has been added or subtracted, affected the payload, pound for pound.

I've been there with a Toyota Tundra. RV salesman said "no problem", this trailer is within your tow rating. Checking the door post sticker, all the numbers looked to be borderline, or under by a few pounds. What I hadn't considered was the fiberglass bed cap, I had added. That bed cap weighed 200 lbs and put me over GVWR, before I put a thermos of coffee in the back seat. It wasn't a pleasant tow.

Best way to find your available payload is to weigh the truck (with full fuel and driver) and subtract that from it's GVWR. That will be the weight you have to work with, for passengers, truck cargo, WD hitch, and trailer hitch weight.

[Gillkid]

I really appreciate all this info. Is my concern here a lack of power or a compromise in safety? The lack of power doesn't concern me too much. 90% of my camping will be within 90 miles of my home. Hardly any hills to worry about. That being said, my wife and two kids will be riding with me and I have zero desire putting there lives in jeopardy.

[Matt_Colie]

Spa is largely correct, but as someone that has done things outside the published envelope for most of his life, the published towing limits are important, but not the end-all. Payload is Payload and that is true, but towing capacity (as I used to rate it for two different OEs) is more about driveline warranty. That is why you can't bolt on an improvement.

A load equalizing hitch (WDH)is a requirement for any trailer that is of any size relative to the tow vehicle. As to whether you need the sway control or not, that is a tough call, since you give no particulars in the TT. My advise? If you can afford it, buy the sway control now and you will not regret it.

Then there is GCVW. That can be a stopper as many states will cite for exceeding that. Read that off the door tag - Today. Get the Tundra loaded with fuel kids and dogs weighed - Today. On your way home from picking up the trailer, get it weighed. (See a running theme here??) After you get the rig loaded for your first excursion, get it weighed. You have just spent ~50$ that could save your life. (See a running theme here?? Do I need a BTDT??) Then, take the new rig into a BIG EMPTY parking lot and try to put it in a parking slot. Lots of campgrounds have few or limited pull though spaces. Unless you have a lot of towing experience, this is something you should schedule. If you can have DW as a observer, have your had signals or radios organised before you start.

Can you exceed any of these numbers and survive? Yes, but you have to be certain that the brain is engaged before you even hook up....
The way that is guaranteed to get you hurt is to push things you can't control like weather and traffic. Remember, If you get behind, Slow Down.

Do Not plan you first excursion into the Smokies. head for the beach or somewhere else that is flat.

If the truck has a 7 wire RV connector, it is most likely wired for a brake controller. You may have to ask a Toyota dealer where to find the cab end of the harness. On your first stop, if you can tell the trailer is back there, the controller isn't set right.

Much of my towing was three ton racing sloops that stood 11' over the road, but my travel trailers were worse.

Safe Travels

Matt