Black Water Tank question

[Big_Don_53]

We are leaving on our first RV camping trip tomorrow and the owners manual leaves a lot to think about. I was wondering if anyone can tell me, when you get to the camp sight and you setup. Do you add water to your black water tank and then add your chemicals to it? It would make since to add some water to get that stuff working before you start using it. But the OM says nothing about it .. any help would be great ...

Thanks Don

[westend]

@EsoxLuius--
We have way different ideas about the toxicity of these materials and the impact on the environment. I am also not losing any sleep about the guy who likes to incessantly rinse his holding tank. I don't use any of these sanitation methods but to each, their own.

[EsoxLucius]

westend, I use Happy Camper, and it works and is cheap, so that is my only financial interest in it.

Surfactants in detergents are toxic to aquatic life, persist in the environment and break down into additional toxic byproducts, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA also warns of a link between surfactants and disruptions to the endocrine system. These chemicals can affect everything from metabolism to normal development, and they may cause reproductive problems and birth defects. Calgon also contains surfactants. Sodium Silicate solutions formed by most detergents are also toxic. Some detergents contain phthalates, which are widely recognized as hormone-disruptors. Nitrogen is found in significant concentrations in laundry detergents. Tell people in the dead zone of the Mississippi Delta that it is not a pollutant.

In any event, several cups of water softener and detergent is more expensive than two tablespoons of Happy Camper, with no better results. So cost alone favors Happy Camper over GEO Madness.

As much as the "plenty of water" users want to backtrack from the idea they might use excessive water with statements like "only what is necessary", if you read carefully about what they are actually doing, they are using excessive amounts of water. We all would like to think that water is abundant and free, but there is an environmental cost with its use. In addition, boondockers are always looking for ways to conserve water.

Chlorine bleach poisons more people in the US than all poisonous snakes and spiders combined. However, it can be relatively benign in the outdoor environment due to its high reactivity and instability. Where it becomes a problem is when it reacts with a wide variety of other chemicals to become toxic and carcinogenic. My main objection to using it in a black water tank system is it is counterproductive. Even infrequent "sanitizing" a black tank of beneficial aerobic bacteria, only to be fouled again with use, is a waste of bleach.

Promoting aerobic bacteria, however its done, reduces the negative aspects of the proliferation of anaerobic bacteria. Aerobic bacteria consume organic material which can often be anaerobic bacteria that gets in is way. That would be killing.

So yeah, I agree with your bottom line.

[westend]

EsoxLucius wrote:
Another perspective is dissolve one ounce (about 70 cents) of Happy Camper per 40 gallons of black water tank capacity in two gallons of water and pour it into an empty black water tank. Not chemicals, water softener, detergent, bleach or copious amounts of water. Happy Camper contains minerals that lubricate to ease dumping and keep sensors clear, and micronutrients including aerobic bacteria which liquifies waste and kills anaerobic bacteria, the cause of foul black water tank odor. Accumulate at least a half tank before dumping and only the water normally used with the toilet and bathroom sink is required. The GEO Method requires complicated mixing of three substances, two of which, at best, are pollutants and one is a poison, and unnecessary amounts of water. Proponents of just using large amounts of water feel there is little environmental impact from the practice. However, it is wasteful when one can use instead an inexpensive and natural catalyst like Happy Camper and much less water to facilitate a healthy black water tank system.

You've posted this same description of the Geo method, "poisonous", "pollutant", in a couple of threads along with your description of the benefits of "Happy Camper" powder to the exclusion of all other methods of keeping the waste water tanks clean. I don't know if you have a financial interest in promoting that product but I think some clarity is needed.

The Geo method has two main ingredients-laundry detergent and water softener. Both of these are manufactured without any phosphates or other ingredients that can be construed in modern terms to be pollutants or poisonous. Bleach is also part of a Geo method tank maintenance and is only used periodically to maintain a non-anaerobic environment. Yes, Sodium Hypochlorite in higher concentrations can be "poisonous" but the same is used in most municipal drinking water and all swimming pools.
Happy Camper doesn't disclose what it's main ingredient is except to note it is a mineral and a monohydrate. My guess is that it is made with one of the cheaper monohydrates, probably calcium chloride. The claims that it contains aerobic bacteria while killing anaerobic bacteria is a stretch. Production of one bacteria type tends to minimize the other but there can't be any bactericide in the product if it works as advertized, or at all.
Bottom line---The USA is a great country, you're free to treat your waste water as you wish or not at all.

[2gypsies1]

You can add all the chemicals you want but the bottom line is....water is the only thing you need...plenty of water. We've used the 'water method' for 17+ years with no problems.

[Metaphor_7182]

Thx IAMICHABOD for that Geo link. Got the materials on my shopping list. Softer water, who knew it was so simple . . . .

[cherrykiss3]

Add 4-5 toilet bowls full of water each time you dump and before you start out on this trip that way you can use it in rout. Then each time you use it fill bowl almost full again to flush. That should give you enough water in your black tank. Dump when no less than 3/4 full.

Cherry

[EsoxLucius]

Another perspective is dissolve one ounce (about 70 cents) of Happy Camper per 40 gallons of black water tank capacity in two gallons of water and pour it into an empty black water tank. Not chemicals, water softener, detergent, bleach or copious amounts of water. Happy Camper contains minerals that lubricate to ease dumping and keep sensors clear, and micronutrients including aerobic bacteria which liquifies waste and kills anaerobic bacteria, the cause of foul black water tank odor. Accumulate at least a half tank before dumping and only the water normally used with the toilet and bathroom sink is required. The GEO Method requires complicated mixing of three substances, two of which, at best, are pollutants and one is a poison, and unnecessary amounts of water. Proponents of just using large amounts of water feel there is little environmental impact from the practice. However, it is wasteful when one can use instead an inexpensive and natural catalyst like Happy Camper and much less water to facilitate a healthy black water tank system.

[tenbear]

I know it was mentioned before but after you dump add water, I use 3 gallons, to your tank. Never let your black tank dry out. The clean water sloshing around in the tank as you drive home will do wonders.

[Big_Don_53]

Thank you everyone for the great advice. It's so much better hearing it from someone who's been there and done that then to wonder just what in the heck these OM are talking about. I wish you all a wonderful weekend

Don

[WoodGlue]

X2 on 2gypsies advice!

Just use plenty of water for all flushes and you'll be ok (if you're not conserving water that is.)

My Lance Owners Manual is so specific, it's lovely!

WoodGlue

[bikendan]

Big Don 53 wrote:
I hope others got a better OM then I did with my Gulf Stream it's just stupid as it covers every model they make and only a general idea of what is what in the whole thing. I learn way way more on Videos and Forums like this .. again thank you ..

Don

nope, generic owner's manuals are the Standard in the RV Industry, no matter what brand it is.
only a handful provide a model/type specific owner's manual.

[2gypsies1]

If you use enough water (one or two toilet bowls full) no chemicals are ever needed. We don't use them. Also remember not to try and dump the black tank unless it's at least 3/4 full. If it's not full enough when ready to dump keep adding water until it is. Also...never leave your black tank dump valve open continuously if you're on full hookups. Keep it closed until ready to dump. Plan to have a full tank of grey water before dumping, too. Dump the black tank and with the valve still open empty a bucket or two of water in toilet to flush out any remainder 'stuff'. Close the valve and then dump the grey tank. The soapy water from dishes, showers will rinse out your hose and nothing further is needed to be done. Good luck!

[wa8yxm]

If you want to add a gallon of water to it at the start it won't hurt, Chemicals are a waste of money. Forget 'em.

[Dick_B]

and as soon as you dump add a few gallons of water and the chemicals. Don't wait until the next destination.
and it's `site' not `sight'.