A little uncomfortable with my set up...

[95jersey]

Let me explain...

I went from a Wildwood travel trailer (22ft, 3600lbs) to a Jayco 273 Toy Hauler (31ft 6500lb, 12ft high). My tonque weight went up significantly from probably a few hundred lbs to 1000lbs. Not to mention, putting in 250-750lbs of dirt bikes behind the rear axle.

My truck is a new 2018 F150 with the 3.5TT, 10 speed, and best towing package you can get on an F150 (extra payload, rear axle upgrade, etc). It is a beast and I could not even feel my Wildwood behind me. My truck specs fully support the load of the trailer with room for safety, but I am not here to discuss specs, but more or less tow feel on highway. Please don't recommend a 250/2500, not going to buy another truck at this point.

Towing the 22ft Wildwood was a walk in the park, I didn't even need a WD hitch. I could do 75mph without blinking. The experience with the Jayco is not so nice. It gently sways and pushes me around just a little, at highway speeds (65+). Not anything significant or dangerous, just unpleasant and requiring your attention. The 18 wheelers passing by are a real joy. I have a HD-WD hitch, airbags on the truck, and 2 anti-sway bars as well. It is set up as good as it is going to get. It is 100% level and the truck has the HP to pull it without question.

I am thinking 2 factors are causing the uncomfort at highway speed (the sheer height 12ft+, and the 31ft length). I am sure the higher tonque weight and 750lbs of dirt bikes loaded past the rear axle isn't helping.

I am thinking of selling it and downgrading to a smaller unit (maybe 20-26ft toy hauler, and in the 5000lbs or less range). Before I go down this road, is there anything I am missing to make my current set up handle better? Also, if I just go down 3-4 feet in length and 1500lbs in weight, will that even improve my situation? Or am I going to have the same problem with the increased height? Would hate to downgrade and have the same **** problem.

[2112]

If you plan on keeping this truck, do yourself a favor and upgrade to LT tires now. I, like you, decided to wait until I wore out the P's before I upgraded. The LT's on my F150 made a noticeable difference in stability. Keep the P's and offer them up on Craigslist. You will have ppl beating your door down to buy them.
Same with the TH tires. I upgraded mind from LR-D to E and made a big difference. Again, post the original tires on CL, don't give them away to Discount Tires, unless you just don't want to mess with it. And properly air up all tires.

But, like others have said, step 1 is weigh your rig.

[LarryJM]

mkirsch wrote:


Where do you get that it is a 12K toy hauler? Jayco Octane Super Lite 273, which is what this appears to be, GVWR is only 9950.

My mistake and I thought I saw 12,xxx, but stand corrected on the GVWR, but still IMO my post as written is still mostly valid and I stand by it until we get REAL FACTS and not just WILD WAGS.

Larry

[WE3ZS]

Jersey, follow this link to find the nearest CAT scale to you.
https://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator/
When you go to the scale you will want to get 3 separate weights,
1. Truck and trailer hitched with WD set as you typically travel.
2. Truck and trailer hitched but with all tension released from WD bars.
3. Truck by itself.
Pay close attention to make sure that the steer, drive and trailer tire's are all on their proper scale pads. Have the truck and trailer loaded as you would have them loaded for an average trip, gear, water, toys and people. The first weigh will be $12 and eac additional pass over the scale will be $2, money well spent.
Come back here and post the results from all three scale tickets along with your F-150's GVWR, F/R GAWR, current tire specs including weight ratings and payload per the door stickers. With all of that info it will be possible to figure if your combo can be better optimized with a little money and work.

[95jersey]

goducks10 wrote:
So you don't have the HDPP option. All you have is a Max Tow.
I'm guessing here, but it looks to me like you're probably over on the receiver rating and I never read where you mentioned whats in the truck.
P rated tires are not on the HDPP option. And your payload would be near 2300 lbs.
does you truck have the 5'.5" bed or 6'.5" bed.
I could be wrong but I thought the HDPP F150 came with LT tires.
I don't think you have enough truck for that heavy of a TT. The reason that it towed so much better with the lighter TT was because the TT was not as heavy as the truck.
You now have a long heavy TT behind a light weight truck with squirmy P rated tires and soft suspension.
TH have the axles farther towards the rear to accommodate for rear loading. Jayco specs the dry tongue weight at 1080 lbs. No propane, battery or anything else up front. Add 60lbs for propane, 100 batteries. You're at 1240 lbs with out anything else in the front.
Hard to tell how much the dirt bikes reduce the tongue weight since the axles aren't dead center in the equation.

correct, max tow HDPP is not available on the crew cab for some reason...payload on the door says 1970lbs. Even if it is say 1300-1400lbs, I am still within spec, but the honest answer is that doesn't mean it is going to tow nicely, just that I am in spec.

Maybe a simple upgrade to LT tires and 1500lb WD may work...may not

[95jersey]

mkirsch wrote:
Calm your roll, Larry.

Where do you get that it is a 12K toy hauler? Jayco Octane Super Lite 273, which is what this appears to be, GVWR is only 9950.

Toy haulers tend to be super-heavy on the tongue from the factory because the back half is nothing but open space. This model is no exception with a dry tongue weight of 1080lbs, 17% tongue weight. Unless you are hauling lead ingots, what toys you've put in there should not bring the tongue weight down THAT much. It has a 3500+lb cargo capacity.

It's a heavy rig and a lot for that truck even with all the suspension upgrades. Probably closer to 9000 after you consider all the options. This is what I try to warn people about... It'll do it but you may not like it, then what?

And this is why I am thinking of downgrading, rather than just throwing more money (ie, better tires, better WD Hitch) at the situation, only to not really solve the problem. It tows good 90% of the time, it is just that 10% with wind and tractors.

It is a really nice trailer, but probably is more than I actually need in retrospect. Wife really wanted a separate bedroom space, which drove the decision on the 273, but she may just have to compromise on that. I really think the sheer length and height of the thing will never make for comfortable towing, no matter what I throw at it. Standing behind this thing is like looking up a tractor trailer box...just massive in height. It is just going to catch the wind and be sucked into every 18 wheeler on the road regardless.

However, I think tongue weight is the real question here and that can be done with a tongue scale. If my tongue weight is 1500lbs and I have a 1000lbs WD system, then that is the first problem that needs to be fixed, or I just need to downgrade.

[goducks10]

So you don't have the HDPP option. All you have is a Max Tow.
I'm guessing here, but it looks to me like you're probably over on the receiver rating and I never read where you mentioned whats in the truck.
P rated tires are not on the HDPP option. And your payload would be near 2300 lbs.
does you truck have the 5'.5" bed or 6'.5" bed.
I could be wrong but I thought the HDPP F150 came with LT tires.
I don't think you have enough truck for that heavy of a TT. The reason that it towed so much better with the lighter TT was because the TT was not as heavy as the truck.
You now have a long heavy TT behind a light weight truck with squirmy P rated tires and soft suspension.
TH have the axles farther towards the rear to accommodate for rear loading. Jayco specs the dry tongue weight at 1080 lbs. No propane, battery or anything else up front. Add 60lbs for propane, 100 batteries. You're at 1240 lbs with out anything else in the front.
Hard to tell how much the dirt bikes reduce the tongue weight since the axles aren't dead center in the equation.

[mkirsch]

Calm your roll, Larry.

Where do you get that it is a 12K toy hauler? Jayco Octane Super Lite 273, which is what this appears to be, GVWR is only 9950.

Toy haulers tend to be super-heavy on the tongue from the factory because the back half is nothing but open space. This model is no exception with a dry tongue weight of 1080lbs, 17% tongue weight. Unless you are hauling lead ingots, what toys you've put in there should not bring the tongue weight down THAT much. It has a 3500+lb cargo capacity.

It's a heavy rig and a lot for that truck even with all the suspension upgrades. Probably closer to 9000 after you consider all the options. This is what I try to warn people about... It'll do it but you may not like it, then what?

[95jersey]

LarryJM wrote:

95jersey wrote:
Everyone is giving great advice! It looks like my truck as P tires, so next time I buy tires (spring), I will go LT. That should help and is a no brainier.

Regarding the hitch. It is a Curt Manufacturing Cur17022 Round Bar Weight Distribution Complete Kit 10,000 lb Towing/1,000 lb Tongue Weight.

The specs on Jayco trailer are 6,450lbs dry and the hitch weight is 990lbs. I pack fairly light as most trips are just long weekends. But we can account for 2-3 dirt bikes at 250lb each, a 125lb generator and 54 gallons of water (450lbs), and another 200lbs for kitchen stuff, 2 propane tanks and a battery. So rough estimate 8000lbs?

I will take pictures of the set up tomorrow as I am taking it in for winterization.

Also, I have no idea where to weight the set up, how do I locate a place to do this?

:E :E :E :E :E :E :E :E

A 12K+ GVWR TH behind a F150 with only a round bar 1K TW hitch makes me think you are not just a little, but a LOT over in more than one rating and some very safety related like tires. This makes my recommendation to NOT TOW THIS except to the nearest CAT scale to see where you are weight wise. Finally, PLEASE be VERY, VERY CAREFUL getting to the CAT scale since your rig could possibly be well past being safe on the road.

Larry

The GVWR for the Jayco is actually 9950lbs. The configuration of this F150 is rated at 10,400lbs. Payload is 1970lbs on the door panel. I do agree upon further inspection that my tonque weight is probably over 1000lbs (maybe 1200-1400, but just a guess). So I may be over the WD tonque limit.

[LarryJM]

95jersey wrote:
Everyone is giving great advice! It looks like my truck as P tires, so next time I buy tires (spring), I will go LT. That should help and is a no brainier.

Regarding the hitch. It is a Curt Manufacturing Cur17022 Round Bar Weight Distribution Complete Kit 10,000 lb Towing/1,000 lb Tongue Weight.

The specs on Jayco trailer are 6,450lbs dry and the hitch weight is 990lbs. I pack fairly light as most trips are just long weekends. But we can account for 2-3 dirt bikes at 250lb each, a 125lb generator and 54 gallons of water (450lbs), and another 200lbs for kitchen stuff, 2 propane tanks and a battery. So rough estimate 8000lbs?

I will take pictures of the set up tomorrow as I am taking it in for winterization.

Also, I have no idea where to weight the set up, how do I locate a place to do this?

:E :E :E :E :E :E :E :E

A 12K+ GVWR TH behind a F150 with only a round bar 1K TW hitch makes me think you are not just a little, but a LOT over in more than one rating and some very safety related like tires. This makes my recommendation to NOT TOW THIS except to the nearest CAT scale to see where you are weight wise. Finally, PLEASE be VERY, VERY CAREFUL getting to the CAT scale since your rig could possibly be well past being safe on the road.

Larry

[95jersey]

Everyone is giving great advice! It looks like my truck as P tires, so next time I buy tires (spring), I will go LT. That should help and is a no brainier.

Regarding the hitch. It is a Curt Manufacturing Cur17022 Round Bar Weight Distribution Complete Kit 10,000 lb Towing/1,000 lb Tongue Weight.

The specs on Jayco trailer are 6,450lbs dry and the hitch weight is 990lbs. I pack fairly light as most trips are just long weekends. But we can account for 2-3 dirt bikes at 250lb each, a 125lb generator and 54 gallons of water (450lbs), and another 200lbs for kitchen stuff, 2 propane tanks and a battery. So rough estimate 8000lbs?

I will take pictures of the set up tomorrow as I am taking it in for winterization.

Also, I have no idea where to weight the set up, how do I locate a place to do this?

[Cummins12V98]

Properly inflated "E" tires will make a huge difference!

[2012Coleman]

LarryJM wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
You need to weigh it with the toys and all your stuff loaded ready to travel. I think you’ll be surprised at the numbers you find, specifically the tongue weight. I’m betting it will be low. Proper tongue weight will be 12% of the trailers loaded for travel weight. Without knowing for sure, I’m guessing you’ll be around 9k lbs trailer weight. You want at least 1200 lbs on the tongue.

Get it weighed!

This is the best and IMO THE ONLY ADVICE THAT MAKES SENSE. Until this is done (i.e. getting some actual FACTS) it's all guesses and probably bad ones at that.

Larry

Totally agree. Here is some help for you to do this: CAT Scale Locator

[LarryJM]

dodge guy wrote:
You need to weigh it with the toys and all your stuff loaded ready to travel. I think you’ll be surprised at the numbers you find, specifically the tongue weight. I’m betting it will be low. Proper tongue weight will be 12% of the trailers loaded for travel weight. Without knowing for sure, I’m guessing you’ll be around 9k lbs trailer weight. You want at least 1200 lbs on the tongue.

Get it weighed!

This is the best and IMO THE ONLY ADVICE THAT MAKES SENSE. Until this is done (i.e. getting some actual FACTS) it's all guesses and probably bad ones at that.

Larry

[dodge_guy]

You need to weigh it with the toys and all your stuff loaded ready to travel. I think you’ll be surprised at the numbers you find, specifically the tongue weight. I’m betting it will be low. Proper tongue weight will be 12% of the trailers loaded for travel weight. Without knowing for sure, I’m guessing you’ll be around 9k lbs trailer weight. You want at least 1200 lbs on the tongue.

Get it weighed!

[valhalla360]

Give us the full specs on both truck and trailer...the initial post is misleading. 6500lb is empty...it' likely up around 10-11k lbs and pushing the limits of a 1/2 ton.

Now if your tongue weight is too high or too low, it can cause handling issues. Being a toy hauler, bikes in the back should be accounted for already, so assuming you don't have a bunch of other weight in the back, I would guess your hitch weight is too high.