Can Anyone Tell Me What Year....

[liquidspaceman]

What year wood frames in RV construction were replaced with steel/aluminum framing? I'm sure different companies might still use wood framing or a combination of various materials, but I am wondering if the industry has shifted to mostly aluminum or steel frame design and if so, what year roughly they might have started doing that?

To put this in context as to why I need to know. I am wondering which RV's and what years are less succeptable to wood rot/leaks because their frames are "mostly" aluminum/steel or combination of non-wood products.

Or am I totally misinformed and most RV's are still made with wood frames?

[garyhaupt]

Wowowowowow...how is anyone ever going to be able come to a conclusion wood vs aluminum?

From my perspective the bottom line is rot. The poster lives in LA and as long as the only RV'ing you are ever going to do is in the warmrth and dryness of southern Ca, Az, and Nevada, your choice of building types is moot. If, however, you are going 'all over', then one needs to be aware of the potential for rot. RV's leak if not well maintained, usually thru the clearance lights, front facing window ...do NOT get one with that...and rear caps, and any seams (some cheaper RV's have seams in the front cap).

You don't see RV's/trailers/TC's just laying on the side of the road having come apart. Unless they have been in an accident, of course.

Triple E's are metal frame.



Gary Haupt

[Ex-Tech]

BTW, Rexhall uses pressure laminated walls and roof all framed in steel. These steel structures are then welded to the floor and each other creating a box frame around the entire structure.

[travelnutz]

True that Airstream has been using aluminum framing since the 50's but they were extremely expensive to build and not for the average or even upper average consumer's budgets or even close. The first volume pull behind RV builder to use square strong aluminum tubing in place of wood with having the same spacings between structure members and even welded it on both sides was Carriage Corporation back in the late 1970's on some models. They still weren't cheap but affordable the a much larger portion of consumers. The way Carriage built their aluminum RV cages was considerably stronger than their wood counterparts. By 1990 Carriage Corp used only aluminum structures in their towables.

Today, about all RV manufacturers using aluminum structures build with very few studs and using thin walled materials thruout including the headers and roof trusses etc in their aluminum RV cage constructions. Then they glue or bond a thin sheet of material on one or both sides to stiffen it more. Yes, it is a much lighter but weaker structure than the average old wood cages and it works OK for several years. However, over time the lack of frame etc support rears it's ugly head in flexing and sagging or buldging or bond/glue break free in the stress areas.

You can see it for yourself in CG's and on dealers used lots, usually in their budget section and it's obvious. Research and know the difference in actual aluminum cage constructions etc so you don't get burnt down the road with structure issues.

With aluminum cage structures, frame rot is basically eliminated as the surface materials can be replaced if they succumb to age or rot issues. Not cheap but doable. The cage itself still usually remains basically intact. Remember, an RV etc is no stronger than is base (chassis frame) it sits on which is almost always a welded steel frame and some are very weak while others are very strong. Homes require good footings for the same reason and they don't travel down bumpy roads. Weak steel chassis frames further allow the RV cage construction to flex more and thereby causing RV issues you do not want. Usually makes wood rot seem a much easier fix or repair as wood is easier to wrok with in general.

Yes, I much prefer and purchase properly constructed aluminum structure RV's but buyer beware and educated. Much to learn!

[westend]

IMO, there's nothing wrong with wood as construction material for RV's. It is more about the techniques used to implement the frame construction than the material used. IMO, there's nothing inherently wrong with aluminum frame, either.

If there is any controlling factor to either manner of construction, it's that the consumer desires a lighter RV and, consequently the Mfg.'s use any means to meet that requirement. Sometimes, the result is a structure that is less durable than could be had if the mantra wasn't "build light and sell product". The advent of the slide and it's desirability among purchasers has thrown a wrench into the "lighter build" realm and the added weight has to be compensated for somehow. Panelized construction is one of the ways that are used to keep weights down.

[tenbear]

My 2005 Four Winds, built and purchased in 2004 on a 2004 chassis, uses aluminum in the walls and, I believe, steel in the floor. I have had no problems with it after almost 9 years and consider it to have been well designed and built.

[tatest]

pnichols wrote:
Well ... going by these links relating to features and frame construction showing that Winnebago, for one, does indeed use complete framing above the floor. I may have been wrong, as perhaps the framing is steel and not aluminum - although I may be confused about their Class A construction materials versus their Class C construction materials. Actually, I prefer steel, but is does weigh more and does rust.

The frame schematic on the left of the first link below is clearly the innards of a typical Winnebago-built Class C ... showing an extensive frame above the floor:

http://www.goitasca.com/products/2014/spirit_spirit_silver/key_features/superstructure/

http://www.goitasca.com/feature_comparison

Those drawings are misleading because those metal pieces are not assembled as a frame, and then the walls covered and filled. That is an assembly, for demonstration, of the metal stiffening pieces enclosed in separately laminated wall and ceiling/roof panels, which later in construction are interlocked and fastened with metal screws.

Go to the factory and watch how those "frames" get bonded into the walls, which derive their strength primarily from the foam cores. Then watch how the walls are hung onto the side of the floor, and the roof set onto the walls.

Winnebago, at least, has interlocking joints where these metal pieces of each panel fasten to other panels. Most other manufacturers using laminated panels depend entirely on the fasteners to hold the structure together.

[pnichols]

Well ... going by these links relating to features and frame construction showing that Winnebago, for one, does indeed use complete framing above the floor. I may have been wrong, as perhaps the framing is steel and not aluminum - although I may be confused about their Class A construction materials versus their Class C construction materials. Actually, I prefer steel, but is does weigh more and does rust.

The frame schematic on the left of the first link below is clearly the innards of a typical Winnebago-built Class C ... showing an extensive frame above the floor:

http://www.goitasca.com/products/2014/spirit_spirit_silver/key_features/superstructure/

http://www.goitasca.com/feature_comparison

[Oaklevel]

liquidspaceman wrote:
What year wood frames in RV construction were replaced with steel/aluminum framing? I'm sure different companies might still use wood framing or a combination of various materials, but I am wondering if the industry has shifted to mostly aluminum or steel frame design and if so, what year roughly they might have started doing that?

To put this in context as to why I need to know. I am wondering which RV's and what years are less succeptable to wood rot/leaks because their frames are "mostly" aluminum/steel or combination of non-wood products.

Or am I totally misinformed and most RV's are still made with wood frames?

The majority of RVs today still have wood frames....Alum. frames started in the 50s & 60s.................................Maintenance is the key to the lasting of any RV......... Getting away from sectional Alum. roofs was probably one of the best improvements...

[JEBar]

Jayco's wood frame Jayflight line of campers is so sorry that it has been the best selling line of travel trailers in the US for 9 consecutive years .... there is no way to convince folks who believe that a company can't work efficiently and quickly while producing a quality product .... folks concerned about the video might find it enlightening to make the effort to go on a tour of the factory and see it first hand .... if every camper out there was built the way they build Airstreams, very few could afford a new one .... wood frame campers have been around for a very long time and that isn't going to change any time soon .... Excel puts out a pretty fair line of camper, somebody needs to tell them that wood frames are such a terrible thing

Jim

[tatest]

Most modern mass production RVs, particularly those you ride in, do not have framing above the floor. They are assembled from panels laminated around foam cores, using wood and plastic sheet materials, and aluminum, steel and wood stiffening members. Some manufacturers characterize the stiffening members as frames, but they are not, in the sense you are trying to envision.

Laminated wall construction was introduced to motorhomes by Winnebago in the late 1960s, and gradually adopted by most other manufacturers by the 1990s. Dates vary quite a bit, company to company.

Some lower production, higher end motorhomes still use framing rather than laminated wall construction. LazyDaze and BornFree, in C's, use steel and wood to frame the house structure. Newmar frames in aluminum, built on top of a wood floor. Holiday Rambler built motorhomes, including C's, with aluminum framing on a steel-framed floor, for Monaco, H-R and Safari brands, until Monaco Corp moved production of those models to it's R-Vision plant and switched to the laminated wall technology used by R-Vision.

You will find towables still stick-built, with wood framing, as well as unframed boxes using laminated wall panels. There are a few smaller TTs (and at least one brand of C motorhomes) using molded plastic shells, like a boat, rather than framed construction or a box assembled from panels.

[nitrohorse]

WoodGlue wrote:

nitrohorse wrote:
So your claim is that although Lance builds some shoddy units, and some of their construction methods may be flawed, they are better than most/all of the other RV builders out there?
I haven't seen Jayco complaints on here except for your issues with how quickly they are build. Google Ford Motor Company and research the build times for a Ford. You will be surprised.

Every RV builder makes mistakes and errors both in the manufacturing and follow up (customer service) areas.

What I'm saying is this: I wish more RV Mfgs took more care and pride in building what they're selling to the consumer. I'd never say that Lance built anything "shoddy" since their major factory renovation to CNC machines and with design by SolidWorks, etc. I also happen to think that they do have superior design and design execution as well as construction methods.

A build time for an Airstream is approx. 240 man hours (iirc) to build and are not built on an assembly line.

Lance's also are not made on an assembly line and take roughly 120 man hours (again, iirc) to build.

Fords and Chevy's are made on an assembly line and so that is a moot point.

Apples and Oranges.

WoodGlue

I used Ford as an example of an affordable vehicle that is mass produced. Mass production
does not automatically equate to shoddy craftsmanship.

[pnichols]

Winnebago having an actual engineering staff on board is superb and "expected", but sadly may not be the case with many RV OEMs. I have deduced that was probably the case with Winnebago from poking around under, inside, and behind areas in our Itasca Class C motorhome.

However, I've discovered that our Winnebago-built Itasca probably has some of the same "under-engineered" issues (although to a lesser extent) that most other motorhomes have with respect to unused hidden interior and exterior spaces here and there.

For example:

- Unused open spaces between the bottom of the lowest drawers and the floor
- Unused open space under the bed around the main fresh water tank and water pump
- Unused opens space above the refrigerator ... not in it's air flow duct space ... but above it's main box
- Unused open spaces around where the two coach sound system speakers are mounted
- Unused open space ahead of the main propane tank right in the compartment where the propane tank is mounted

Since we drycamp/boondock a lot and don't like trip-ending situations, I carry all kinds of spare parts in these hidden interior open spaces. The open space around the main fresh water tank could probably even hold another 10 to 20 gallon fresh water tank ... if I didn't mind adding more weight behind the rear axle. The extra space ahead of the main propane tank probably could have been used for a 23 gallon propane tank instead of the current 18 gallon propane tank.

So far after 6 years of ownershiop I've found very few issues (a couple, however) where Winnebago could have built things better.

Another "quality" situation not discussed much in these forums is extra engineering things Winnebago may be doing to the Ford chassis (guessing here - not sure) after being delivered to the Winnebago factory, such as:

- Installation of heat shields above the engine exhaust pipes in the front under the driver and passenger seating areas
- Installation of steel sheeting around the rear duals to protect the undercarriage from rock damage and hopefully, damage should a rear dual tread ever separate
- Installation of a front steering shock absorber
- Installation of a frame to hold the spare tire up out of the way between the rear frame members

.... and it goes without saying that Winnebago's RV construction and parts documentation system for current and earlier products is unsurpassed. IMHO, that alone is worth buying a Winnebago product over others if one intends on keeping their RV a number of years and keeping it in top shape. Even if have a dealer repair something, I research Winnebago documentation to make the "dealer did it right".

[Chris_Bryant]

pnichols wrote:
At least my Winnebago kitchen cabinets will be attached to some kind of metal for several years instead of wood for a few years.

Winnebago does a very credible job as far as safety. Anyone who has ever remove a refrigerator from one can attest to that. They have an actual engineering department, staffed by actual engineers 🙂
As mentioned, Born Free is tops as well.

[dodge_guy]

I realize some of that video was sped up, but if they slowed down a bit, 1 or 2 trailers a day, maybe some of the quality issues could be resolved!

I definitely wouldn`t have let that video out, if I was Jayco.