CC&R dated 1973 says no RVs, trailers, boats can be stored

[kmb1966]

I am looking to purchase a home and found one that has a nice driveway on the side of the home with gates. My original plan was to park my Newmar Dutchstar motorhome on the driveway behind the gates. It fits.
However, the neighbor across the street who has a 2-story house says she would be able to see the RV from her upstairs window. She hasn't mentioned the CC&Rs, but I have a copy. The CC&R does state that there are to be no RVs, trailers, boats or similar item stored on the property. That's all it says. These CC&R's are dated 1973, and there is no active HOA anymore, but the CC&R's apparently still apply because they auto renew somehow. My issue here is that the CC&R's are old, and provide no definition for 'storage' or how long is acceptable. I suppose I will consult an attorney on this issue. It seems unfair to enforce a 40+ rule without any ability to re-vote or modernize or clarify any of the rules since there is no active HOA. Furthermore there is no way to vote for the continuance of the auto renew of the CC&R. Without any HOA, there is no way to even vote to change or consider any changes to these 1970 CC&Rs. It would seem reasonable in these modern times with so many having RV's that if the property has a driveway where the RV can be stored behind the fence/gate and cannot be seen from the street, that it should be acceptable. The fact that the lady can see the RV if she goes upstairs and looks out the window seems silly. Thoughts?
ON EDIT: I have observed 5 other houses in the neighborhood with boats, RV's, and trailers in the driveway not even behind the privacy gate/fence.

[dedmiston]

I'd sure like to get an update from the OP.

This thread is nearly a month old and the OP gave us an update a couple weeks ago saying that he's looking at other places.

With New Mexico's tight housing market and the overall condition of real estate right now, that house has probably sold already and should be closing escrow with someone else any day now.

At this point, the discussion is just jibber jabber that has no relation to the original topic.

It's been interesting though.

[ryoung]

PA12DRVR wrote:
We need the OP to fill in some blanks." That would help but probably wouldn't get to a definitive answer.

Interestingly, a quick survey of the last 3 pages reveals at least 10 different jx, not counting the OP's jurisdiction. In many jx, CCR's actually run with the land (are appurtenant) and therefore do not need an active HOA for the CCR's to be an enforceable by anyone governed by the same CCR's. Although much of property law tends to be consistent across a good part of the U.S.A., most jx have extensive statutory and administrative law that governs property and interest communities...so applying experience from other jx won't necessarily provide insight into the OP's situation.

Thanks for providing this clarification to the discussion.

I am basing my comments as a resident of Florida, in which I own property that is under HOA rules.

Florida statutes require an HOA association to register as a corporation under Statute 607 and remain active.

Further, the HOA corporation is bound by Statute 720, Homeowners Associations.

These statutes are what I have based my opinion on.

The OP needs to find legal advise on his current situation. If his state regulations are similiar to mine, then the CC&Rs are not binding.

ryoung

[time2roll]

I would just park the thing as you like or as is customary in the development.
If someone has an issue, deal with it then.

[PA12DRVR]

"We need the OP to fill in some blanks." That would help but probably wouldn't get to a definitive answer.

Interestingly, a quick survey of the last 3 pages reveals at least 10 different jx, not counting the OP's jurisdiction. In many jx, CCR's actually run with the land (are appurtenant) and therefore do not need an active HOA for the CCR's to be an enforceable by anyone governed by the same CCR's. Although much of property law tends to be consistent across a good part of the U.S.A., most jx have extensive statutory and administrative law that governs property and interest communities...so applying experience from other jx won't necessarily provide insight into the OP's situation.

[ryoung]

Bumpyroad wrote:
the OP also states that the CC&Rs automatically renew.

They renew only if the HOA is active. The OP states the HOA is inactive.

ryoung

[Mike134]

Bumpyroad wrote:

ryoung wrote:

Mike134 wrote:
Last post page 2 explains how it gets enforced. If you live close enough to that house and have money to use on an attorney you become the enforcer.

Deed restrictions and HOA CC&Rs are two different things.

Any restrictions written in a defunct HOA organization, as the OP is stating, are not enforceable.

Deed restrictions are enforceable.

ryoung

the OP also states that the CC&Rs automatically renew.
bumpy

Seems he got his hands on the Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions from somebody. If an HOA is long gone than the copy came from the County Recorders office? local busy body? We need the OP to fill in some blanks.

[Bumpyroad]

ryoung wrote:

Mike134 wrote:
Last post page 2 explains how it gets enforced. If you live close enough to that house and have money to use on an attorney you become the enforcer.

Deed restrictions and HOA CC&Rs are two different things.

Any restrictions written in a defunct HOA organization, as the OP is stating, are not enforceable.

Deed restrictions are enforceable.

ryoung

the OP also states that the CC&Rs automatically renew.
bumpy

[ryoung]

Mike134 wrote:
Last post page 2 explains how it gets enforced. If you live close enough to that house and have money to use on an attorney you become the enforcer.

Deed restrictions and HOA CC&Rs are two different things.

Any restrictions written in a defunct HOA organization, as the OP is stating, are not enforceable.

Deed restrictions are enforceable.

ryoung

[Mike134]

miltvill wrote:
With no active HOA who is enforcing the rules? Who is going to fine you? Does the HOA have an attorney? In most states it is a civil matter and not a criminal matter so, government will not get involved. Do you have to pay HOA fees? If you pay HOA fees then, who is collecting the fees?

Last post page 2 explains how it gets enforced. If you live close enough to that house and have money to use on an attorney you become the enforcer.

[Grit_dog]

miltvill wrote:
With no active HOA who is enforcing the rules? Who is going to fine you? Does the HOA have an attorney? In most states it is a civil matter and not a criminal matter so, government will not get involved. Do you have to pay HOA fees? If you pay HOA fees then, who is collecting the fees?

You’re late to the party bud... it was established almost immediately that there is no HOA.
There is however a concern over a future neighbor.
The only question here, is whether said neighbor would actually lawyer up and file suit.
The paranoids have this as a forgone conclusion.

[Walaby]

I'd sure like to get an update from the OP.

Mike

[miltvill]

With no active HOA who is enforcing the rules? Who is going to fine you? Does the HOA have an attorney? In most states it is a civil matter and not a criminal matter so, government will not get involved. Do you have to pay HOA fees? If you pay HOA fees then, who is collecting the fees?

[belfert]

Powertour wrote:


I'd rather live in a van down by the river than EVER live in an HOA again.The narrative "but mah property values" is a false narrative. Home values are determined by price per sq ft via zip code, not whether or not a home is in an HOA. Matter of fact, every single ad for any home in non-HOA areas in my metro area always have a place in the ad where "NO HOA" is listed in all-caps. That is telling in & of itself.

The reason an HOA would improve property values is it requires homeowners to keep their houses maintained. No one will be living next to an eyesore of a house. Now, if two neighborhoods are kept up to the same level with one HOA and one not HOA then values will likely be about the same.

I will never live in an HOA and I made darn sure not to buy in an HOA. I also made sure no covenants or deed restrictions. The problem is nearly every new housing development, at least in my area, has an HOA or other restrictions.

[Gdetrailer]

Bird Freak wrote:
Tell your real estate agent to research it and if its not enforceable have it removed from the deed.

Maybe it works in GA that way, but I highly doubt it will work that way in most other states..

Here in PA, if it is "written in the deed" it must stay "in the deed".

The Deeds are a legal binding document, restrictions are often written into the deed to prevent certain uses, activities, ect that are not covered by zoning but are the wishes of the seller..

For instance, many properties I looked at many yrs ago had restrictions written into the deeds by the seller against mobile homes. My plan was to move a mobile home we owned that was in a trailer court (we paid lot rent) and the trailer was paid for.. Wanted to buy undeveloped property to eventually build a new home but move the mobile home on the property until home was designed and built.. Once home was built, then sell off the mobile home.. That would save use $350 per month in lot rent..

Ran into that restriction over and over and over, even with land that was several miles off road..

Absolutely no way a Real estate agent can remove such restrictions in PA, would take throwing a bunch of money to lawyers to even have a slight hope of removing restrictions from a Deed..

Best plan is to MOVE ON and find property that is not deed restricted or have HOA attached..

That is what we ended up doing, bought a old fixer upper home that actually had a mobile home also on the property..

Rehabbed the home and made the mobile home vanish.. Now I have property that has no deed restrictions, no HOA and no worries to me.

HOA and deed restrictions are all about attempting to artificially get and hold a higher property value..