Dinghy brakes or not?

[Jayco-noslide]

I'm hesitant about this topic because I will probably get lectured but I'm wondering how many of you flat tow with no supplemental brakes? My situation is a 30 ft motor home towing a 2700 lb. Chevy Sonic. I think I'm legal if under 3000 lbs. To me it seems to stop as well or better than my former rig of a 25 ft. 5th wheel towed by a half-ton truck, with the trailer having brakes. I know that every inch less that 1 can stop is important but, let's face it, stopping distance is going to be longer with any RV set-up brakes or not. I'm brakeless mainly I guess because of cost but also inconvenience of another thing to mess with. Just wondering if I am a group of 1 or many?

[Y-Guy]

mowermech wrote:
It appears that in Washington State a towed motor vehicle does not meet the legal definition of a "trailer"! If that is true, trailer braking laws do not apply!

I respect your drive for facts. However, the key word in your statement is "If". Should there be an accident it would be up to the State Patrol or others and then the judicial system to decide if a vehicle that is being towed qualifies as a trailer or not. Personally, I don't plan on risking it. If I ever don't have to much to do I may take the RCW and chat with the WA State Patrol, but I don't see that happening any time soon 😉

[mowermech]

Y-Guy wrote:

mowermech wrote:
Please cite the Washington State law.
While you are at it, please cite the Washington State law that gives legal definitions regarding vehicles.

I think this is the section of the RCW you are asking for

RCW 46.37.340

Yes, that is ONE of the laws I asked for.
But, it references RCW 46.37.351, Performance Ability of Brakes. For our purposes, look at Para 3, C-4. IF your rig can do that without aux brakes, you are legal!

Now, look at RCW 46.04.620, (the other law I asked for) which states:
"Trailer" includes every vehicle without motive power designed for being drawn by or used in conjunction with a motor vehicle constructed so that no appreciable part of its weight rests upon or is carried by such motor vehicle, but does not include a municipal transit vehicle, or any portion thereof. "Trailer" does not include a cargo extension.
Note that a "trailer" includes EVERY vehicle WITHOUT MOTIVE POWER designed for being drawn by or used in conjunction with a motor vehicle".
Is that an accurate description of a towed motor vehicle?
It appears that in Washington State a towed motor vehicle does not meet the legal definition of a "trailer"! If that is true, trailer braking laws do not apply!

It does not require a law degree to READ most laws. They are usually written in language that nearly anybody can understand, as in the three laws noted above for Washington State, or the Montana laws I previously noted.
It ain't brain surgery, folks.

[nevadanick]

What some do not realise is that alot of motorhomes have the capacity to carry the towed vehicle, so then how do you explain that they would need aux brakes.

[irishtom29]

As I lay in bed last night mulling over this thread it occurred to me that the money and effort spent on supplemental brakes might be better used to improve the brakes of the RV itself. I wonder if high performence brakes are available for RVs, as they are in the high performence car aftermarket? This might be especially useful for gassers pulling under 3000 pounds. Rather than worrying about better stopping the 2500 pounds you're towing work on better stopping the 24,000 pounds you're driving. All would then follow.

[irishtom29]

Lantley wrote:

Spin it anyway you want. Since I'm not a lawyer but just another RV'er I won't cite you any specific laws.

Then desist from erroneous and misleading statements on law. You stated the OP was illegal in most places, having been asked to back up such a sweeping statement you can't.

[Ductape]

How about some of you jailhouse lawyers present your law degree?

This cyclical argument never ends. More brakes stop better than less brakes.

Saving money is the argument against it, it's ok to call it what it is, economics are a fact of life.

OP you by now have your answer, you have plenty of company. But if things go wrong, don't expect them to be beside you in the courtroom.

As for me, I expect driving what I do I would be a nice target for ambulance chasers, so I'm not going to do things to make it easier for them if it ever comes to that.

[Tom_Barb]

Y-Guy wrote:

mowermech wrote:
Please cite the Washington State law.
While you are at it, please cite the Washington State law that gives legal definitions regarding vehicles.

I think this is the section of the RCW you are asking for

RCW 46.37.340

Thanks that's it.

[Tom_Barb]

Delete -- question answered above

[Y-Guy]

mowermech wrote:
Please cite the Washington State law.
While you are at it, please cite the Washington State law that gives legal definitions regarding vehicles.

I think this is the section of the RCW you are asking for

RCW 46.37.340

[mowermech]

1rickw wrote:
If it wasn't illegal in CA to tow with without a brake system, I would not use one. I have a Honda Fit that weighs 2400 lbs. I keep the brake system turned on low. The only time it goes on is if I have to stop a little harder, but the system locks up my Honda's brakes. Very annoying. I have a 26 foot Class C on a E-450.

From what I have read of CA law, if you can stop your rig within 45 feet from 20 MPH on a clean, dry, level, hard surface without aux braking, you are legal.
Look up the CA Braking Performance Law.

[mowermech]

Tom/Barb wrote:

mowermech wrote:
Yes, of course, obey the law.
MOST states do NOT have any law requiring brakes on a towed motor vehicle.

Wa Law states it as "any vehicle in combination" doesn't say trailer, wagon, car, truck,or any thing else. they simply place a limit on the load towed. (3k)

Please cite the Washington State law.
While you are at it, please cite the Washington State law that gives legal definitions regarding vehicles.

[obgraham]

Aside from what's legal, it probably depends on the towing rig.

Towed the CRV behind a 38 foot Winnebago Journey DP, with Unified Tow system always on for some 40K miles.
Until it developed a fault, so had to run the last 900 miles home without the toad brakes.

I have to admit, it made no difference in driveability, including up and down some steep mountain passes.

[1rickw]

If it wasn't illegal in CA to tow with without a brake system, I would not use one. I have a Honda Fit that weighs 2400 lbs. I keep the brake system turned on low. The only time it goes on is if I have to stop a little harder, but the system locks up my Honda's brakes. Very annoying. I have a 26 foot Class C on a E-450.

[Tom_Barb]

mowermech wrote:
Yes, of course, obey the law.
MOST states do NOT have any law requiring brakes on a towed motor vehicle.

Wa Law states it as "any vehicle in combination" doesn't say trailer, wagon, car, truck,or any thing else. they simply place a limit on the load towed. (3k)

[Lantley]

irishtom29 wrote:

Lantley wrote:

Towing without brakes in the OP's scenario is negligence and illegal in most places.

Cite the law as it applies to the OP in "most places".

Here in Florida a trailer under 3000 pounds need not have brakes. But a 2 axle towing vehicle and trailer under 3000 pounds must be able to stop from 20mph in 40'. So the OP is good in Florida. Now Florida isn't most places but It's a place, and one rife with RVs pulling cars.

Spin it anyway you want. Since I'm not a lawyer but just another RV'er I won't cite you any specific laws.But the song remains the same. There is cheap and there is careless. If the OP gets into a accident because he can't stop in time shame on him....He knows better regardless of the regulations.