Good and Bad about Blue Ox Sway Pro

[Rescue16]

I just purchased a 2013 Cougar 32RBK travel trailer and I am towing it with a 2006 Ford F350 Crew Cab With the 6.0 Powerstroke. I am looking at getting the Blue Ox Sway Pro and would like to here the good and bad about this WD/Sway control. With my previous RV and vehicle (21SS Shamrock Hybrid and Ford E250 Conversion van) I used the Equalizer and all the experience was great it was really noisy.

Thanks in advance for taking a moment to tell me the good and bad!!

[JBarca]

BarneyS wrote:

Mike Up wrote:


So how is the new Blue Ox Sway Pro system different than the standard Reese Trunnion system without the Dual cam sway control, besides the Blue Ox rotary chain latches.

I can see the downward tilt force of the Blue Ox sway, but this should also be happening in standard trunnion systems with downward head tilt without any additional sway control hardware.

I just don't see how the Blue Ox 'new' Sway Pro head is anything different than a standard trunnion head but without any adjustable tilt.

Thanks

I agree. I still fail to see how the system provides sway control other than the friction between the bar sockets and the hitch head (similar to the Equal-izer). I don't see the chains playing any part at all in sway control. The tilt of the hitch head/chain tension during a turn or sway would be the same as a normal WD hitch so I don't see any difference there either.
Barney

Hi Guys,

The computer simulation model found on their site Blue OX site at minute 2 of the 6:02' U tube attempts to explain how their anti away control works.

This snap shot from that video is part of the explanation



See the angle of the trunnion socket pivot bolts. They are counting on that angle of the trunnion socket pivot bolt. And since you cannot adjust the head tilt, it will be there.

See the cross section of the WD bar. The new WD bars are thin in the long direction with a fine taper in thickness all the way up to the trunnion socket. The WD bar is full width just about from the chain to the trunnion socket. The WD bar will flex (bow) much more easily across the long thin section than the left to right as viewed from the top.

I "think" (do not know for sure), they are counting on the fact that when the TT and TV are far enough off center, (TV at an angle to the TT) the WD bar force will increase and "help" guide the TT to track back on center. The shape of these WD bars are different than most traditional WD bars and will flex different. The angle of the trunnion pivot bolt and the WD bar force create a force in the direction to "help" guide the TT to track back to center.

I can see the concept helping to aide in this high degree off center effect, and I can see the Blue Ox WD bar profile flexing better than the conventional WD hitch WD bar, however... I see it as a reaction verses a prevention method of anti sway control. An unknown is, how much off center angle between the TV and the TT is needed to be effective?

They state that their chain brackets "eliminate sway" at the minute 3:39' mark in the video. I believe that to be an incorrect statement or a marketing promo mix up. I do agree their longer support chain bracket "limits" chain swing. However if someone is using a high rated WD bar in relation to the loaded TW, the chain will be long and still be able to swing more than it would on the more matched WD bar.

The instructions here: http://swaypro.com/Uploads/Docs/BXW0550,0750,1000,1500.pdf state a level TV is a method of proper WD. This one size fits all statement does not apply well to the large set of combinations of TV's. They are also going by 1 to 2" of hitch connection drop as a method of measurement of WD. I "believe" they are trying to simplify the setup verses what WD is suppose to be doing on the TV. I myself would not use that method as there are other variables in the TV that can make their stated end result not be correct.

In the instructions, under troubleshooting it talks about what to adjust for excessive sway. They tell you to properly balance the TT. I and many others 110% agree with this as it is the underlying foundation of proper trailer setup. If the TT is balanced properly it should not be swaying.

As I mentioned before, the quality of craftsmanship is very good. The WD bars and trunnion sockets have some very nice features. The rotary chain brackets offer a different approach and helps on some TT's with LP tank mounting issues. I do prefer their prior generation adjustable hitch head to allow for finer resolution of the WD. The big question comes back to, how effective is the anti sway control as compared the ultra high friction types of anti sway control?

If an RV'er has a well matched stiff suspension, stiff tire flex TV and a well balanced TT for low anti-sway characteristics, well how much force resistance do you need from a anti-sway WD hitch when towing on the ball some 48 to 65" behind the TV rear axle? Reese, Equalizer,Husky,Blue Ox, EAZ lift etc do not put some kind of rating on anti sway control. With all the TT & TV combinations and variables in the setup, how can they? So, well, you are left to figure it our for yourself.

It would be really good if one of their technical staff could help explain how they came to the conclusions they did and what testing helped them make those statements. Their latest video is the most we have had from them on the web.

Hope this helps

John

[BarneyS]

Mike Up wrote:


So how is the new Blue Ox Sway Pro system different than the standard Reese Trunnion system without the Dual cam sway control, besides the Blue Ox rotary chain latches.

I can see the downward tilt force of the Blue Ox sway, but this should also be happening in standard trunnion systems with downward head tilt without any additional sway control hardware.

I just don't see how the Blue Ox 'new' Sway Pro head is anything different than a standard trunnion head but without any adjustable tilt.

Thanks

I agree. I still fail to see how the system provides sway control other than the friction between the bar sockets and the hitch head (similar to the Equal-izer). I don't see the chains playing any part at all in sway control. The tilt of the hitch head/chain tension during a turn or sway would be the same as a normal WD hitch so I don't see any difference there either.
Barney

[Mike_Up]

JBarca wrote:

gmw photos wrote:

BarneyS wrote:
I fail to see how the chains can supply much,if any, sway control at all since the brackets pivot right along with the a frame and bars in a sway event and in a turn. The bars DO move forward and back but are not rigid side to side, which would be necessary for sway control to take place.
Barney

When the trailer is not in line with the tow vehicle, the bars have an unequal force applied to them. That unequal force is applied ( if I am understanding it correctly ) because of the fact the head of the hitch is tilted backwards at it's top.
As proof of this, when I am cranking up the chains on this hitch, if I don't have the truck exactly straight in line with the trailer, one bar will "chain up easily" while the other bar is very difficult to get the latch to turn. In that case, I have to crank up the tongue jack some more to get enough weight "off the bars".

It's that unequal force, created by the geometry of the hitch head, bars, and attaching chains that is apparently the force the keeps the trailer inline when it tries to sway.

At least that's my take on it. All I know is it works. And the weight distributing part works as well, a fact I verified by setting mine up and going to the CAT scale.

Hi Barney,

I have seen the new version up close at dealer and took a bunch of pics. The hitch is made well, craftsmanship wise. And it does have grease fittings on the trunnion pivot pins. There are no trunnion pivot bolts to tighten. The trunnion sockets pivot free other than the high force of the WD pulling on them.

Blue Ox has now created a video with a computer simulation. They show a computer model creating the effect gmw photos is explaining.

This Blue Ox should fire off Blue Ox site and scroll down to the 6 minute info video. They do not come out and say it, but they are down playing the Reese. I can tell they are Reese parts.

The WD part is straight forward like any other conventional WD hitch. However as said, no more head tilt. So chain links is the total adjustment. If you get real heavy bars in relation to the TW, the chains are going to hang down pretty far which then comes to the anti sway part.

The profile of the WD bars leads itself to be able flex more easy as compared to say, an all square Equal_I_zer. The concept "appears" to be counting on an angle being created down the center line of the truck and TT at the tow ball to create higher force on the down stream WD bar in relation to the sway force acting on the TV and TT. That higher force would tend to want to push the connection back towards the direction of sway force.

They intentionally have a large tilt angle backward on the hitch head to help create this higher force in the WD bar.

I can see the force it creates reacting on the hitch head and wanting to help bring the TT back in line. The further off center the TT and TV go, the larger the force. A similar WD force occurs on the Reese DC if the hitch head is titled approx 7 to 10 degrees to the rear. On the Reese the down stream WD bar increases in WD force riding up the cam and increasing the ultra high friction.

A difference in the Blue Ox is that the TV and TT has to become out of line for the force to build as going dead straight ahead both WD bars are loaded equal.

An unknown right now is, for a given TT length and TV wheel base how much force is needed in that down stream WD bar and how much off center angle of the TV & TT to exert enough force at the hitch head to dampen the sway action? Good question.

The ultra high friction hitches like Equal-I-zer or Reese DC use the friction to help prevent the angle between the TT and TV from forming while the Blue ox needs some level of angle for it to work.

I can see the force happening they are talking about, I just can't yet sort out how much force is needed and how far the angle between TV and TT needs to get to be effective in anti sway control of a large TT.

This would be a good one to stimulate Ron Gratz with.

John

So how is the new Blue Ox Sway Pro system different than the standard Reese Trunnion system without the Dual cam sway control, besides the Blue Ox rotary chain latches.

I can see the downward tilt force of the Blue Ox sway, but this should also be happening in standard trunnion systems with downward head tilt without any additional sway control hardware.

I just don't see how the Blue Ox 'new' Sway Pro head is anything different than a standard trunnion head but without any adjustable tilt.

Thanks

[JBarca]

Hi Rescue

Maybe can help. I looked up your camper.

http://www.keystonerv.com/cougar-xlite/ Nice camper, congrats.

That 34' 7" long camper starts out at 7,401# dry with a 750# dry tongue weight. That comes out to be 750/7401= 0.101 or X100 = 10.1% dry tongue weight. That is a very light tongue weight for a camper of that length. That means when you load it, you would really want to get it more in the 13% to 15% range. Since you have 1,599# of cargo capacity, if you added 1,200# of stuff, (not hard to do in 35 feet) this could put you up at 8,601# loaded GVW. At 13% loaded tongue that is 1,118# and at 15% that is 1,290# loaded tongue weight.

Tell us what "ride is a little rough" feels like?

In this case a trip to the truck scales can really help sort this out. Need 3 set of weight in progression. TT & TV hitched with WD on, TV and TT hitched no WD (drop the chains) and then truck only. All axle by axle weights.

If you are at 1,000# WD bars now, and you should be up in the 1,100 to 1,200# TW range, you really do not want to go lighter bars.

I have some experience with your truck suspension, mine is a 05, yours and 06 but they are close.

Also tell us, what do you have in the truck bed when towing the TT? and where is it in relation to the rear axle, on top, in front or behind?

Any chance of providing fender heights unhitched and then hitched with the WD bars snapped up?

Do you haul fresh water to camp and if so where is the tank in relation to the TT axles, on top, in front or behind?

Hope this helps

John

[Rescue16]

Well so far I like the quality of the Sway Pro still dialing it in since I have not been out much. Called Sway Pro for some tips and must admit there customer support is awesome. They gave me a few things to try since my ride is a little rough when I am hooked up. They said if what they recommend does not work then they will do what ever they need to do to ensure that my towing experience is enjoyable when using there product.

Going to reconfigure somewhat while I am out at the camper this weekend and see how it tows home and if I am still not happy they will replace the bars with a different set since my camper is right at the in between weight which the 750lb bars could be used when the camper is empty but since my planned tongue weight was more then 750lb they sent the 1000 lb bars which might be possibly the reason of the rough ride.

[gmw_photos]

So far ( only about 10K miles ) I am not seeing any apparent wear issues where the trunnions rotate. There is a grease zerk on each trunnion. I am using the grease gun on those zerks as per the instructions, and am using an EP grease.

The brackets have not moved along the frame on the trailer tongue. I just tightened the set bolts down tight, and they have not come loose and like I said, the saddles have not moved.

Y'all made me curious what it all really weighs. I just took the scales out there. The head itself weighs 68 pounds, with of course the ball. The bars and chains weigh 12 pounds.

I too am not real impressed with the wrench they provide to turn the chain-up brackets. Since I carry a 2 foot breaker bar ( and torque wrench ) in the toolbox anyway, I just added a socket for the brackets.

EDIT: just an FYI if someone comes across and is using one of the old style heads like mine, there are four bolts on the bottom that actually capture the trunnions to the head assembly. The previously mentioned two that 'adjust' the tension for sway control, and two smaller bolts. The two smaller bolts are to have loctite applied and be torqued to 47 ft-lb. This detail was not in the original instructions that came with mine, so I emailed them to ask. They replied with a follow-up tech bulletin that gave me the spec.

[CHD_Dad]

One other thing I didnt like about the new design when I first saw it - and this is true of the old design as well - the actual weight of the hitch. Its well over 100# in solid steel. Good for longevity but bad to have to handle or for those trying to watch weight (like me!) due to payload or any other reason. The Andersen can easily be handled by my wife where she couldnt budge the Ox.

It looked very well built but when I got the new design I was apparently one of the first to get it. Even Blue Ox couldnt help me much with all my questions on the new design over the phone or emails so I ended up sending it back.

[BenK]

PP & Hensley project the pivot point...the Pullrite's pivot point is actually
moved towards the rear axle

Nothing is perfect and nothing is purely bad

I still like the PullRite, but it's issues have not been resolved in my mind

Am liking this Blue Ox Sway Pro much more as the details come forth

Like the trunnion bar pivot design, but do not like friction embedded into it's
pivot point.

The stoutness of their design makes the others flimsy and always hearing of how
they wore or cracked the socket portion of the head

Friction at the pivot point where the leverage arm is waaaaaaaaaaaay down there
by the end of the trunnion will have the amount of friction required HIGH and
the wear from that will be fast

'IF' there is to be a friction component, then I'd make the head top trunnion flange much larger
and have the friction material on top of the trunnion bar. As the trunnion bar
forces increase, so does the level of friction. Or some such design

The folks who like the quick setup/take down of the Andersen should noodle this one

Unhook looks like seconds for the chain and do see that my own tools would be
way better than their supplied wrench

Trunnions come out with a twist and pull after the chains are relieved of tension

Some questions and one is the amount of head tilt they dialed into the casting
which then is NOT adjustable...guess there will be some which will require more...but
then bigger or higher rated bars would then transfer more weight that head tilting
is all about (not enough distance to tension the bars on a other WD systems)

Never like to drill into a stressed member and the clamp-on interesting, but
don't like the potential of sliding along the tongue member. That can be solved
with a cross member locking their clamp on chain tension-er

The more I noodle this one, the more I like it !

[eluwak]

We've put 1000 miles on our setup, and I think we have it just about dialed in now. I don't have a direct comparison with the same TV and TT combo, but it seems to work about the same or better than traditional spring bars & sway bars. If I had to do it over again I might try another system, but I'm not sure they would be any better (save PP or Hensley).

[gmw_photos]

And I'm not sure if you all will be able to this photo either, but if so, this is the camper ( funfinder 189FDS ) I'm pulling with the Frontier with the BlueOx hitch. Camper is just under 4000 pounds

[JBarca]

In case you cannot see GMW Photos pic of his truck & Hitch

See here. It will not post directly from some odd reason, but I can link it.

http://www.wacaser.com/misc/potn/LU4M1023_620.jpg

[JBarca]

uprighter wrote:
From what I've read, this is not the current model. The have eliminated the adjustment bolts on the bottom and the head tilt.

Hi, yes you are correct. I posted the older model so we can see the differences. The new model is on the 1st page of this thread

BTW, I see you are from Hudson Valley NY. I grew up and lived there 32 years in the lower Hudson Valley. Greenport area just outside of Hudson. Could see Olana state park from the farm house.

[JBarca]

Hi GMW,

Your pic is not coming through. Really want to see it.

[Rescue16]

Well I have now done 2 trips with the Sway pro Since asking everyone for input about this System. So far I am happy with it although I am still adjusting it in. Figured out my Rancho shocks are trash on my F350 so in the process of getting some Blisten's as soon as I can figure out the right 5100's I need for my stock FX4.
Hooking it up is simple although to make things easier a got a Breaker Bar with the correct size socket to assist in hooking it up instead of using the handle they supply which the rubber handle slips of always at the wrong time. Well come back with a full review after I replace the shocks and get a few more miles of testing.

[gmw_photos]

JBarca wrote:

I have tried to find a pic of new or old one installed on a truck. Found one but did not want to link here not knowing the person. I think they are even an RV net member.

Many who have used them state they work well. And not dis-doubting them as their rig may be stable like it should be.

The WD part hands down works. At this point it is not clear the level of how effective is the anti sway portion as compared to other brands in the high friction category.

Here is a pic of mine on the Frontier the day I was setting it up. As shown here, a trip to the scales showed that I was restoring nearly all the weight again to the front axle. Without WD I was pulling 300 pounds off the front axle.

This is what we are referring to as the old style head, but the more recent rotating brackets. As you can see this style brackets makes it easy to deal with any obstructions there like propane tanks.
As far as how this hitch might compare to other brands regarding sway control, I can't comment because this is the only WD/sway control hitch I have used on this truck/trailer combo.