Help with Backing Up

[seagrace]

Sorry, apparently I'm not allowed to post relevant content.

[Rice]

toedtoes wrote:
Few people like to be told what to do. Especially when the one telling them thinks they are an "expert" and that they are so good that they can give those directions to any monkey and get it done right.

But is it the same if the one directing the wheel-turning really is an expert? Lord knows I don't like being told what to do, but if the person doing the telling is an expert, why would I have a problem with it?

I'm telling you--Mr. Rice could have a blind person back an RV into the tightest space perfectly, based solely on his verbal directions on how to turn the wheel. So he really is an expert, and I'm happy to defer completely to him.

If time is of the essence, I'll either have him do it himself (with me just being a second set of eyes), or I'll man the wheel while he tells me exactly what to do. Either way, it gets done right the first time.

If we're not rushed for time, I'll do it myself, with him spotting just to prevent disasters. But I'm nowhere near the backer he is, so it'll take more time. I like the practice, but there's no way I'll ever be as skilled as he is.

I've seen him back that thing into impossible places, and one that I regrettably missed was at a snowbird park in Phoenix with very narrow streets, 90-degree spaces, and our space was next to a park model with a carport on the line on one side, and on the other side there was a light pole right at the corner of the driveway, which left no room for error on the entry.

He pulled into the park by himself, and approached the site. A neighbor said that whenever people get that site, they go out and come back in from the other direction. So he did that. And then he backed the rig into the space by himself, in one shot, and the assembled crowd gave him a round of applause.

To the OP: I really do think you should try having your wife take the wheel, and just follow your explicit instructions. I actually think the problem comes from two different people trying to back it in at the same time--the person spotting and the person manning the wheel. They both have ideas about how to do it, and those ideas can conflict, but not necessarily in obvious ways.

In your first post, you gave the example of your having gone too far in one direction before she tells you you've gone too far. Maybe she just doesn't know. Sometimes Mr. Rice does things that don't look right to me, but they actually are, so if I'd told him to stop, it would have messed up what he was (correctly) doing.

So try having one person who solely directs the mission, and one person who executes it, and it sounds like it should be you directing and her the executing.

And again, I don't mean directing it as in "go left." I mean telling the person which way to turn the steering wheel and not to proceed until the director confirms that the RV's wheels are pointing the way they should, and then the RV moves until the director says to stop, and then the wheel is repositioned, and the RV moves, until it's in the site.

It will require using radios, but the person at the wheel shouldn't have much to say, if anything. Just do what the director says.

"Turn the steering wheel all the way to the left."

[Driver turns the steering wheel all the way to the left.]

"Okay, back up about ten feet."

[Driver backs up a bit.]

"Three more feet."

[Driver backs up slowly for a few feet.]

"Stop. Now bring your wheel to straight."

[Driver moves steering wheel in opposite direction and stops turning the wheel, but the wheels aren't straight yet.]

"You're not straight yet. Turn the wheel again."

[Driver turns the steering wheel and the RV's wheels are now straight.]

"Back up just a couple of feet."

[Driver backs up slowly.]

"Stop."

[Driver stops.]

"Now turn your wheel all the way to the right."

[Driver turns wheel all the way to the right.]

"Back up about 15 feet."

[Driver starts backing up.]

"You have six feet, three feet, two...stop."

[Driver stops.]

Now turn the wheel a little bit back to the left.

[Driver turns the steering wheel a little to the left, but it's not as far as it should be.]

"Turn it a little more."

[Driver turns it a little more, and keeps doing it until the director sees the wheels are pointing in the right direction and tells the driver it's good.]

Etc. Just like you're using a remote control to back it in.

Of course, there will be a problem if the person who thinks he knows how to do it isn't as skilled as he thinks he is, but that will become apparent pretty quick if all the driver does is follow directions. And if it turns out the person isn't all that skilled, then at least it's obvious who's the problem, and steps can be taken to fix the problem.

But again, I think the problem isn't just communication, but two people having in mind two different plans on the path the RV needs to take into the space. When hearing (or seeing a signal) "go left," one person may turn as hard left as possible right off the bat, while another may turn left as he's going, and these will put the RV in different places. Both are "go left" but they're not the same thing.

And that could happen even if both people walk the space and decide on the route in.

That's why I think it's better for one person to watch the RV and the wheels, and give directions that the other person simply follows.

But maybe I'm unique in just wanting the best possible result. I'm fine with acting like a trained monkey, just following directions, if that's the role that will get the job done.

[Veebyes]

For final placement the DW will sometimes stand where she wants the left rear corner of the trailer to go. Now I have a target.

[PawPaw_n_Gram]

My suggestion is to walk the site with her. Show her what you are wanting to know about. Mark where you want the wheels to end up. Show her where you want her to stand. If she gets out of view, stop the truck, get out and go look at what she is looking at. (My wife finds that annoying because ‘people will think I’m not doing my job’ to which I reply I’m trying to help you learn a difficult job. )

Spotting is a difficult job for someone who has no idea how the trailer actually responds to steering wheel movements in the truck.

Another suggestion is to find and print out a sheet of hand signals. Make sure both of you have it in view when parking. Another think I’ve done is let her spot for one of our friends. She seems to take his suggestions as just that. Sometimes she sees my suggestions as criticism.

Most important of all. Try to make sure she understands that you are not criticizing, just trying to help her make both of you better at the job of parking.

And if she makes suggestions on how you can help her understand what you want, danged well do them. This is a two way street and the “I’ve been doing it just fine for 30 years attitude” is a clear message you don’t need or really want her help.

[3ares]

How far do you pull up from where you want to start your turn when backing?

Thanks and Happy RVing

[3ares]

I've been pulling trailers all my life. I have no problem backing a trailer of any size - except that I cannot see behind the trailer and when backing at an angle, I cannot see much of anything. Relying on my sense/ability, and jumping out every few feet to check progress I can eventually get positioned where I want.

It sure would be nice if I could get my wife to help me with this, but she seems absolutely clueless. She will stand behind the trailer, where I cannot see her and make signals. Given a radio, she waits until I've gone too far in one direction to tell me I've gone too far. I've tried to patiently explain these things to her, but she just doesn't seem to get it.

Does anybody know of a training video or site I can point her to that would help her understand how to communicate properly?

Are we there yet?

2012 Ram 3500 4x4, "Clifford, the Big Red Truck"
2017 Forest River Salem Cruise Lite 251SSXL TH "Homie"
2014 Arctic Cat Wildcat Trail "Artie"


I'm married to her sister!!!

[seagrace]

Sorry, apparently I'm not allowed to post relevant content.

[Gdetrailer]

seagrace wrote:
"I agree with both of Gdetrailers posts completely. You really do need more practice, and she should try backing up also. I am not being condescending, so please don't take me wrong. With practice you both will get much more comfortable. The camp site isn't the place to practice though."

Some of these posts make me sorry I asked. I'm thinking for some of you, English must not be your first language.

I know how to back a trailer, okay? And no, I'm not being "condescending".

One CAN say the same thing about one NOT LISTENING :R .

Backing a boat and a RV ARE two different beasts.

Wheels on a boat trailer are further back than a RV, the two different tire positions create a way different amount of "turn" reaction..

But, hey, you obviously are an expert so carry on trying to "teach" your wife and be frustrated at the results..

Not sure as to why you bothered posting the question :h .

Just saying, my DW acts more as an "advisor" to tell me to stop, letting me know BEFORE I hit anything.

We always get out and scout out the site, then we discus where the trailer is to land, then it is just a matter of acting on our discussions.

If you know your mirrors you CAN get the job done with one person and rarely ever have to leave the cab.

My inspection station that I take my TT to yearly has a pretty difficult spot to park in..

Have to back the rig up a steep hill into their parking lot..

Sometimes they want me to just park in front of a garage door which is dirt simple and sometimes they want me to make an addition 90 degree turn in their lot and into a service bay..

The inspection mechanic has asked if I drive semis on multiple occasions.. He tells me that even most semi drivers have a hard time making that turn and fitting it into the service bay.

But, hey, after all, you are the "captain" of your rig so carry on.

[seagrace]

Sorry, apparently I'm not allowed to post relevant content.

[nevadanick]

Put some markers where you want the tires to track if you cant see where you want to go. I have put pieces of tape down, rocks etc, then just ise the mirrors.

[sgfrye]

RoyF wrote:
For me, there is no substitute for getting out of the truck to actually look things over before backing. I may have to do that more than once to check for trees, picnic tables, etc.

My wife's signals are very useful on when to stop. I rely mostly on my own judgement for the steering, but I don't tell that to DW.

X2 on this

If I'm backing in to a tight site I usually pick a spot I want to start our TT turning.

I tell my wife to stand about 2 feet outside that spot so I can see her in my side mirror

If I run over her I know I turned too sharp


All joking aside it takes patience. And she is a huge help. I have finally gotten the point across to her that if she can't see my side mirror I can't see her

[Scottiemom]

I do all the driving of our big rig. But when we get to our destination, I hop out and DH does the parking/backing. Sure, I can do it, but it takes longer. He said it's because I give better, more understandable hand signals than he does. He is dyslexic and that may have something to do with it. We use totally silent hand signals. . . I know how to keep in his line of vision and it's pretty much flawless when we do it. No yelling, screaming, or radio noise.:C

Dale

[toedtoes]

Rice wrote:

Rover_Bill wrote:
DW has no patience and blows her top when I tell her - turn right, left, right. She screams: Why don't you make up your mind which way to turn can't you see where I'm going?

Well that's a new one to me.

I would think people would relish having the "expert" tell them which way to turn, and simply follow the directions. Who cares if you're turning left right left right left? Just do what you're told.

Either it gets done perfectly because it's the expert doing everything but actually handling the wheel (which face it, a monkey could be trained to do), or the expert gets humbled because it doesn't work.

No skin off the wheel handler's nose in any event, which sounds like a win to me.

ETA: And when I say do what you're told, I mean verbally, not hand signals. Tell the wheel handler which direction to turn the wheel, how much to turn the wheel, and have them stop between each repositioning of the wheel so you can check the tires and make sure it's set up right for the next maneuver. Almost like operating the RV via remote control. It should make for perfect results every time.

Few people like to be told what to do. Especially when the one telling them thinks they are an "expert" and that they are so good that they can give those directions to any monkey and get it done right.

[dieseltruckdriv]

Gdetrailer wrote:

seagrace wrote:
Thank you, Rice, that is exactly the issue. I have no problem with letting her wander off and doing it myself, it just means I have to jump out of the truck a few more times to get it right.

I would rather we do this as a team and work out how to do it, and I would rather she have some experience backing - just in case there is a time when she will need to do it without me. I think the next trip out, I'm gonna let her take the wheel.

FWIW - yes, backing a boat/trailer is far easier when, 1. I've already lined up the truck, and/or 2. There is no boat on the trailer - she's a whiz at that 😉

You missed the point.

While I don't mind "working as a team" the problem is if BOTH "members" of the team do not instinctively understand backing up then neither members of that "team" will be able to help effectively.

In other words, your wife does not fully understand what direction you must turn the wheel to make it go the direction needed. If she does understand then her "signals" WILL be MORE EFFECTIVE to you.

Best way to do it is to both learn how to back it up with a trailer.

But the only way to do this is to start with the basics and that is both need to learn how to put a vehicle in a crowded parking space.

Each one of you NEEDs to learn what you can and cannot see in the mirrors.

Once you both have solo backing memorized adding the trailer becomes much easier not just for you but your "team".

In other words, if you are the primary driver, you really should be able to at least be able to park it solo, sometimes you may have to do it that way anyway..

PRACTICE.

I agree with both of Gdetrailers posts completely. You really do need more practice, and she should try backing up also. I am not being condescending, so please don't take me wrong. With practice you both will get much more comfortable. The camp site isn't the place to practice though.

I will share our own experience.

My wife was a city kid. I am a farm kid, farm kids usually know how to back up, because they start young. I know this isn't always the case, but usually it is.

We got to the campground, and there was no one there. Literally,
NO ONE. There was no audience, so I told her to back the trailer in. She didn't want to get yelled at, so I told her she had all evening, and I would stop her if she were about to hit something, or drive off the pad. I made her start from the road, and it was a blind side back, (camp site on the right hand side of the road) which is the most difficult. She was very nervous, but started trying. There was a lot of forward and backward movements, but she kept trying. After several (quite a few) minutes, I told her to stop! She asked what was wrong, and I told her nothing was wrong, I needed another beer out of the fridge. She did finally get it into the spot before I needed to stop her again. 😉

She was not happy with me for that, but now she understands that when I am backing up, she has to be where she can see me in the mirrors, and that I can not see the top of the camper, so she knows to look out for branches etc. I still get thumped in the arm when I bring that up, but it helped us both tremendously. I can back into literally any spot I think I can fit into, and now I know that I can trust her to watch out for what I can't see, because she remembers what it takes to back our 5er up.

That, and the fact that sometime she might NEED to be able to do it, if I get sick or something.

Like I said, practice, and have her try to back it up also, even if she protests.

[36guy]

Some years ago, we were in a campground with one difficult spot left to park in. Along comes a couple, with a fifth, I bet they wouldn't get in as a ditch was part of the backup area, but....he jumped out, she moved over, he motioned from the front of the truck which way she was to turn. She only looked at him, and together she backed the fifth in, the truck through the ditch, all while doing as he pointed,smooth as you please.
Now....if I could teach my woman that.....

[Rice]

Rover_Bill wrote:
DW has no patience and blows her top when I tell her - turn right, left, right. She screams: Why don't you make up your mind which way to turn can't you see where I'm going?

Well that's a new one to me.

I would think people would relish having the "expert" tell them which way to turn, and simply follow the directions. Who cares if you're turning left right left right left? Just do what you're told.

Either it gets done perfectly because it's the expert doing everything but actually handling the wheel (which face it, a monkey could be trained to do), or the expert gets humbled because it doesn't work.

No skin off the wheel handler's nose in any event, which sounds like a win to me.

ETA: And when I say do what you're told, I mean verbally, not hand signals. Tell the wheel handler which direction to turn the wheel, how much to turn the wheel, and have them stop between each repositioning of the wheel so you can check the tires and make sure it's set up right for the next maneuver. Almost like operating the RV via remote control. It should make for perfect results every time.