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How cold is "too cold" ?

dockmasterdave
Explorer
Explorer
I'll start with the question first. How cold does it have to be or for how long, before I need to "winterize".
We live in extreme SWFL, it never really gets cold here. Maybe a couple days a year in a bad winter.
We have an Amerilite 21MBLE with no 4 season package, not even coroplast under belly. It is a moisture barrier then OSB set right on the frame, waste tanks are exposed.
All plumbing lines, I think, are run in the outside walls, fresh water tank and pump are under the bed.
We are thinking about hitting north FL or the pan handle this winter to experience some winter and look at some land.
I was thinking even low 20's would be OK if it warmed up during the day.
I know the waste tanks would take quite a while to freeze solid. How about the supply pipes ? I would fill the fresh water tank and disconnect my water hose, and run off the tank.
Also open to any tips or advice. TIA
2014 F 150 ecoboost
2008 Chrysler Aspen
09 Amerilite 21 (modified)
2013 Bendron 14' enclosed cargo
2011 4x8 open cargo
26 REPLIES 26

blt2ski
Moderator
Moderator
Ralph Cramden wrote:
blt2ski wrote:
Sheep dip folks,

Some of you have obviously NOT been at any of the ski area's here in the NW US! Over 100 units on any given weekend at some places. NONE of them are winterized! I drained everything in the spring, refilled with water come Thankgiving to spend weekends at the local area. It got down to 10F many times, 20-25F max during the day for a weekend, ie friday pm to sunday pm!

ANy way, for the temps the OP is in, keep the heat going, inside lines will be fine! If you are going to be in sub freezing temps a lot as I was, get rid of any drains mid stream in the main lines, as water will freeze up and you will not have water beyond this point! Their are some other things one can do to make things better per say.....Unless you are going to be someplace as noted, below for a day or three or more, get some 2-3' of snow on the rig over those 2-4 days......you are worrying about nothing!

Marty


Not really sheep dip..............Just because you can spend a weekend in sub freezing temps with rig A which has all the water lines and fresh water tank inside the box, that may not be a great idea in rig B which has a tank under the trailer, may or may not have an underliner, and may have exposed water lines or uninsulated lines that are just laying on a sheet of coroplast.

You can freeze pex solid and not hurt it a bit, but you'll most likely crack every single fitting if they happen to be the plastic ones typically used in RV's.


Relooking at the OP's description, sounds like his trailer is equal to my 92 Prowler i had. Along with a few others trailers etc. Some granted had more protection. Still, had times where temps were below freezing from weekend to weekend including here at sea level near Seattle where I live. Along with the sub 20F temps for the 48-56 hours at 3000'! Its not a big deal.
water tank was in the main cabin, like OPs, gray ad blcak tank were un insulated in the open. Very rarely fully full, so plenty of room for material to expand in its frozen state when it did so.

Careful thought and planning, one can live in sub freezing temps for some time if the unit is heated etc. Our max was around five days IIRC. Came home one time with and extra 3000 lbs of snow in and on truck, 4000 on the roof of the trailer, That was after a 30 mile drive home, lost a bit of snow too! 5' over four days, chains all around on truck to get out of parking lot. Pass was closed going down, so had to hang out. No skiing too! grrrrr.

Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
2014 Chevy 1500 Dual cab 4x4
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer

ZINGERLITE
Explorer
Explorer
can't speak much for winterizing campers but i am seasoned with boats. Our rule of thumb for winterizing was always "If it gets below 32 degrees during the day". As far as the OP's situation it may not hurt if you have a small air compressor to just blow the lines out at night.

Ralph_Cramden
Explorer II
Explorer II
blt2ski wrote:
Sheep dip folks,

Some of you have obviously NOT been at any of the ski area's here in the NW US! Over 100 units on any given weekend at some places. NONE of them are winterized! I drained everything in the spring, refilled with water come Thankgiving to spend weekends at the local area. It got down to 10F many times, 20-25F max during the day for a weekend, ie friday pm to sunday pm!

ANy way, for the temps the OP is in, keep the heat going, inside lines will be fine! If you are going to be in sub freezing temps a lot as I was, get rid of any drains mid stream in the main lines, as water will freeze up and you will not have water beyond this point! Their are some other things one can do to make things better per say.....Unless you are going to be someplace as noted, below for a day or three or more, get some 2-3' of snow on the rig over those 2-4 days......you are worrying about nothing!

Marty


Not really sheep dip..............Just because you can spend a weekend in sub freezing temps with rig A which has all the water lines and fresh water tank inside the box, that may not be a great idea in rig B which has a tank under the trailer, may or may not have an underliner, and may have exposed water lines or uninsulated lines that are just laying on a sheet of coroplast.

You can freeze pex solid and not hurt it a bit, but you'll most likely crack every single fitting if they happen to be the plastic ones typically used in RV's.
Too many geezers, self appointed moderators, experts, and disappearing posts for me. Enjoy. How many times can the same thing be rehashed over and over?

blt2ski
Moderator
Moderator
Sheep dip folks,

Some of you have obviously NOT been at any of the ski area's here in the NW US! Over 100 units on any given weekend at some places. NONE of them are winterized! I drained everything in the spring, refilled with water come Thankgiving to spend weekends at the local area. It got down to 10F many times, 20-25F max during the day for a weekend, ie friday pm to sunday pm!

ANy way, for the temps the OP is in, keep the heat going, inside lines will be fine! If you are going to be in sub freezing temps a lot as I was, get rid of any drains mid stream in the main lines, as water will freeze up and you will not have water beyond this point! Their are some other things one can do to make things better per say.....Unless you are going to be someplace as noted, below for a day or three or more, get some 2-3' of snow on the rig over those 2-4 days......you are worrying about nothing!

Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
2014 Chevy 1500 Dual cab 4x4
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer

Deb_and_Ed_M
Explorer II
Explorer II
Don't forget that there are 1/2" drain tubes hanging below the bottom of most RVs; those can freeze and break. The other thing to consider: on a calm night, it could be 28 degrees at the weather station; but if you are down in a "bowl" the temp could be 5 degrees colder.

We had a 3-way valve installed on our pump that drew AF through the lines. We could winterize several times over the course of a couple-week's winter vacation - it was no big deal. The important thing was to haul AF along with us, since it was harder to find down south....LOL!
Ed, Deb, and 2 dogs
Looking for a small Class C!

DownTheAvenue
Explorer
Explorer
dockmasterdave wrote:
How cold does it have to be or for how long, before I need to "winterize"....I was thinking even low 20's would be OK if it warmed up during the day.


Water freezes at 32 degrees if I remember correctly.

prichardson
Explorer
Explorer
Temps lower than the upper 20's and lasting more than a few hours are very rare in that part of the country. If you are in the rig with heat on the most you would need to do is drain the lines and make sure that things like an outside shower are drained.

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi,

Not only is 20 f far too cold--it is light years away from 27 f.

Blow the lines and do pink in the traps.

Bumpyroad wrote:
dockmasterdave wrote:
Thank you for all the answers. It would only be for a few days in North FL or close to there.
Never considered using the pink stuff, and not being able to use my water after that.
I only considered draining lines, maybe blowing them out. I can't imagine that a few degrees below 32 for a few hours at night, will freeze pipes in the walls with heat on, but I could be wrong.
As for whether or not the TT is prepped, I have never looked. Never had any need.
We are in south east Naples, so in 35 years of living here, I have only seen frost a few times, never a freeze.
Thanks again for all the good answers.


20 degrees is a long ways from a few degrees below 32.
bumpy
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Bumpyroad
Explorer
Explorer
dockmasterdave wrote:
Thank you for all the answers. It would only be for a few days in North FL or close to there.
Never considered using the pink stuff, and not being able to use my water after that.
I only considered draining lines, maybe blowing them out. I can't imagine that a few degrees below 32 for a few hours at night, will freeze pipes in the walls with heat on, but I could be wrong.
As for whether or not the TT is prepped, I have never looked. Never had any need.
We are in south east Naples, so in 35 years of living here, I have only seen frost a few times, never a freeze.
Thanks again for all the good answers.


20 degrees is a long ways from a few degrees below 32.
bumpy

HadEnough
Explorer
Explorer
Extreme w Florida? Like Fort Meyers or Sarasota?

No need to winterize there.

dockmasterdave
Explorer
Explorer
Thank you for all the answers. It would only be for a few days in North FL or close to there.
Never considered using the pink stuff, and not being able to use my water after that.
I only considered draining lines, maybe blowing them out. I can't imagine that a few degrees below 32 for a few hours at night, will freeze pipes in the walls with heat on, but I could be wrong.
As for whether or not the TT is prepped, I have never looked. Never had any need.
We are in south east Naples, so in 35 years of living here, I have only seen frost a few times, never a freeze.
Thanks again for all the good answers.
2014 F 150 ecoboost
2008 Chrysler Aspen
09 Amerilite 21 (modified)
2013 Bendron 14' enclosed cargo
2011 4x8 open cargo

johnhicks
Explorer
Explorer
We survived a winter in north Georgia, lowest temp of 18F and snow, in a '96 Jayco TT without any real difficulty other than this Florida boy freezing his patootie off.

I gather you'll actually occupy the rig rather than just park it unoccupied.

Our Jayco had some sort of covering on the bottom but tanks were exposed. We tried a heated water hose but the actual fitting into the trailer froze. Then someone drove over a water line and that night the check valve inside the fitting froze in the closed position and jammed forever, so we removed it. On really cold nights lower than about 28F we disconnected the water hose and operated off the tank, then refilled the tank when the hose thawed out.

We didn't do anything special with the waste tanks or sewer hose and just left the black tank valve closed and the grey tank valve open as normal. The hose would freeze occasionally but since the grey tank was empty it would thaw long before the grey tank would have filled up. We did make sure to not be caught with a full black tank and a frozen hose.

We ran the furnace to stay nice and warm inside. Of course we went through lots of propane; since this trailer wasn't going anywhere we had the local gas company install a 100-gallon residential tank and as a bonus bought gas at the residential rate rather than the higher recreational rate. Although the area beneath the floor wasn't specifically heated, the furnace was ducted under the floor and provided enough heat to prevent freezing.

One very important thing we did was cover the windows inside with plastic film. This is a very thin film that's taped all around the window, then shrunk with heat from a hair dryer. What it does is prevent moisture from condensing on the cold glass and wetting down the interior walls.

Fast-forward a few years and last winter we went through a freezing rain/ice storm near the tropical paradise of Mayo, Fla., lowest tamp 22F.

We're in a motorhome with enclosed tanks/plumbing but again the tanks aren't specifically heated.

We did the usual thing of disconnecting the water hose, but the twist this time is that in the wee hours the power went out. The furnace pulled the house batteries way down so we ran the generator. After several hours the generator died so we resorted to running the engine so we could run the furnace and charge the house batteries.

Turned out that the 25-year-old propane-fuelled generator chose that night to plug up with the oil and gunk that's in all propane.

But we did come through with no damage at 22F. We weren't expecting that cold so didn't have any window film and actually got a little ice on the inside of the windows and windshield.

It was amazing to be in Florida and seeing sheets of ice and icicles coating the sides of the rig, toad etc. I'd lived in Leon and Wakulla counties earlier but had never seen anything like this.

I think the main reason we didn't have any frozen plumbing with either rig is that we ran the furnace and we ran it warm; no 60F indoors for us. So that heated the underneath and walls enough to prevent freezing. An electric space heater wouldn't have done that. We did use a space heater during the days but cranked up the furnace for the nights.

That's our experience and your mileage may vary. If in doubt, winterize. It doesn't take long to do it or undo it.

BTW, we're spending this winter back in central Florida!
-jbh-

ppine
Explorer II
Explorer II
Plenty of people around mining towns with boom and bust cycles, live in RVs year around. Some of those places like Elko, NV get below zero in the winter. People are ingenious about sealing up the space under their rigs, adding insulation and electrical heaters to keep the plumbing working. For some people it is never too cold.

Ralph_Cramden
Explorer II
Explorer II
The OP stated he lived in "extreme SWFL". I take that to mean the Ft Myers area or further south? He should not have to winterize in the conventional sense at all......ever. I worked in Tampa over two winters and would not have worried about it there. When was the last time it dropped into the mid 20's and stayed there for a few days let alone a few hours in SWFL? Has it ever?
Too many geezers, self appointed moderators, experts, and disappearing posts for me. Enjoy. How many times can the same thing be rehashed over and over?