Installing a clean out at home

[Smoothio]

I’m having a slab and hookups put in my side yard for RV parking. The clean out will tap into the sewer system from my property in CA. I want to make sure the Contractor is doing it right, so asking for guidelines from the group around:
1). How far away should the clean out be from the rig (away from the rig and/or downstream)? This is my most important question
2). Is there a pipe thickness/material I should be requiring?
3). For the hose hookup, is there a kind/brand I need to mandate?
4). Tips to make sure it doesn’t stink (like threaded cap, any shapes/slope I need to look for, etc.)

[myredracer]

I would use a 4" pipe with a 1/4" per foot slope and call it a cleanout.

Pipe dia. is normally dictated by the plumbing code and is based on the total number of "fixture units" in a residence connected to the pipe (sinks, toilets, bathrub, etc.). See this table for example. Largest no. of fixture units for a single fixture is for a toilet and a 3" dia. pipe is okay. Note that a toilet is 1.6 gal/flush. Plumbing fixtures normally have a P-trap and a vent pipe is required to prevent a trap from being sucked dry (and to prevent odors from coming out). A p-trap isn't really needed for an RV inlet and you won't need a vent pipe.

An RV dumps 30-ish gallons in a short period of time (way above a toilet at 1.6 gal/flush) and the code doesn't have a figure for RVs and could be why an inspector would just ignore it and consider it a cleanout. A 3" pipe could potentially be overwhelmed with the high flow rate/volume.

As for slope, the min. allowable is 1/8" per foot and 1/4" is what's usually used (excepting a vertical stack). Too little slope reduces the no. of allowable fixture units. Too much slope can result in the liquid and solids being separated and the solids being left behind in the pipe. I have a toilet in my workshop at home with a 3" pipe at 1/8" slope just under the slab. Couldn't get more slope but it works just fine.

Having said this, figuring out what to do isn't rocket science any anyone working as a plumber (and on permitted worksites) should have no problem deciding what's required. If hiring someone off CL who claims he/she's a plumber, you're opening yourself up to potential problems.

If you can't get a cleanout near where your RV will be parked, consider using a macerator pump.

[Dutch_12078]

When we had a new septic system installed at our Adirondack cottage, the plan the contractor had me submit for a permit included a 4" riser and threaded cap marked "RV dump port". The only change the inspector made before issuing the permit was to change the label to "4 inch clean out". He said the code didn't permit an RV dump port at a private residence, but what we do with a 4" clean out was none of his business. 😉

[JRscooby]

zcookiemonstar wrote:
Any GOOD contractor should be able to listen to a customers requests and accommodate or explain why it is not possible or wrong. Just because something is done to a code does not mean it is the best way to do it. Example If a code called for 3 inch drain pipe using 4 inch drain pipe is not wrong if code calls for 14 awg wire 12 awg is not wrong. If you can not or do not know how to work with your customer then you should walk away and recommend they find some one else.

With the wire I agree, the drain pipe? Not so much. The same volume of water, in a 3 inch pipe will be deeper than in a 4 inch. (Assuming a drain pipe will rarely be full) Both pipes same slope, the water move same speed. Therefore a smaller volume of water will carry a solid, unless the solid is large enough to rub the top or pipe.

[zcookiemonstar]

Any GOOD contractor should be able to listen to a customers requests and accommodate or explain why it is not possible or wrong. Just because something is done to a code does not mean it is the best way to do it. Example If a code called for 3 inch drain pipe using 4 inch drain pipe is not wrong if code calls for 14 awg wire 12 awg is not wrong. If you can not or do not know how to work with your customer then you should walk away and recommend they find some one else.

[Hammerboy]

WTP-GC wrote:
Customer involvement is required to have a successful project. Of course you want (and need) to satisfy the customer. The customer is part of the project and needs to feel that way. However, customer meddling into the means and methods of the contractor, especially when the customer knows nothing of the work being performed, is problematic. If you're using white pipe instead of black pipe, it's reasonable for the customer to ask why you chose those materials, but it's unreasonable for the customer to demand that you use black pipe because the Internet says so.

Ski Pro 3 wrote:


Maybe in a perfect world, but contractors are notorious for doing shoddy work, skipping out half way through a job, not being there when things go wrong.
As far as 'to code', just remember that is the MINIMUM quality that is acceptable by a government bureaucracy, written by politicians who have NO mechanical, engineering or construction skills and lobbied by unions that are paid only to protect their members, not the clients who hire them.

I know that every state is different, but licensed contractors in my state have statutory requirements to not do shoddy work, skip out on the job or go away when things go wrong. In FL, they do that and it gets reported, leading to an investigation and then license censure. Now unlicensed contractors are a different story. Most people agree that you should always hire a licensed contractor...until they get sticker shock and choose a guy without a license. Then they cry when things go wrong.

Funny thing is that you'll hear more stories about the customer not paying their bill than you will about the contractor skipping out on the job. I currenty have multiple customers that are way late on payments.

Your statement about the code being written by people who don't have a clue is flat out wrong. The code is developed and maintained/updated by industry professionals who have the proper accreditations. That's not to say that they don't have influence from lobbyists or politicians, but to say that it's written by politicians is incredibly false. Now, as a contractor, I don't always agree with the code and often wonder how it was determined, but that doesn't mean that the author was clueless.

As a licensed contractor of 25 years and in the business for over 30, I couldn't have said it better myself. Fortunately in my time I have only had couple jobs that went sideways and they didn't amount to much. I will always take the time explain how something will be done, take pictures, show them if I run into something before I fix it and how and why I chose to do it a certain way before doing it, etc. My fellow builder friends when I hear them complain about a customer it isn't necessarily their fault if they have a problem but didn't take the time to explain or keep them up to date, they just assume. Communication is key.

Every once in a blue moon I'll come across a customer who is demanding and think they know everything that needs to happen and how it needs to be done and sometimes you realize they don't have a clue. They learned their misinformation from friends who are also clueless but they trust them more than the professional.
Most of the time I will take a pass in these projects before I even get involved.

The majority of contractors are hard working and want to do the best job possible and keep their customers happy, after all positive word of mouth is your best marketing.

Where I see homeowners getting burned is when they don't want to pay a fair price for work done and hire some hack on the side. It often ends up costing them more in the long run.

Dan

[BillyBob_Jim]

allen8106 wrote:

2). Is there a pipe thickness/material I should be requiring?
Schedule 80.

Nothing like doing a job and doing it right LOL. Are you back filling with boulders the size of basketballs?

I'd use 4" Schedule 80 304 stainless and weld the connections.

[allen8106]

1). How far away should the clean out be from the rig (away from the rig and/or downstream)? This is my most important question.
No more than the length of one dump hose.
2). Is there a pipe thickness/material I should be requiring?
Schedule 80.
3). For the hose hookup, is there a kind/brand I need to mandate?
Nope.
4). Tips to make sure it doesn’t stink (like threaded cap, any shapes/slope I need to look for, etc.)
Threaded cap and no more and no less than 1/4" drop per foot on the run to the existing sewer line.

[WTP-GC]

Ski Pro 3 wrote:

WTP-GC wrote:
... so he wasn't going to pay for the "extra" work we did to solve his problem. Well, he's the boss and he was wrong to do that, but because the cost was so small, we have no reasonable recourse.

You can apply a lien on his property until paid if you had a contract written. Contractor = contract = binding legal document.

In California I think it's called a mechanic's lien or Construction lien.

Yes, we have the same options in FL. No offense, but its not so easy as you make it sound. Some things aren't worth the effort. Plus, not every property is lien-able in FL. As I stated, because of the small cost, there was no reasonable recourse. I'm very familiar with the FL lien laws. For most of what I do, that won't get you anywhere. And some customers know it.

[fred42]

For underground burial where there can be surface loads it is best to get solid-wall PVC pipe. I did not know this until I had buried 60' of it in a high load area. I got it at Lowes and thought Schedule 40 was Schedule 40. You can stand on a 4" Cellular Core PVC Pipe and see it turn to an oval.


From the Charlotte Pipe site:

Cellular Core PVC Pipe: Cellular or foam core PVC pipe conforming to ASTM F 891 is produced by extruding a layer of foamed PVC between two layers of solid PVC, thereby reducing the weight and cost of the product. Cellular core pipe is designed for drainage (non-pressure) service only. The stiffness of cellular core pipe in most diameters is lower than that of solid-wall PVC pipe. Pipe stiffness is a key factor in determining the ability of pipe to resist external loads such as earth or live loads in underground installations. For this reason many specifiers believe that solid-wall PVC pipe is more robust and better suited to the rigors of commercial construction.

[Ski_Pro_3]

WTP-GC wrote:
... so he wasn't going to pay for the "extra" work we did to solve his problem. Well, he's the boss and he was wrong to do that, but because the cost was so small, we have no reasonable recourse.

You can apply a lien on his property until paid if you had a contract written. Contractor = contract = binding legal document.

In California I think it's called a mechanic's lien or Construction lien.

[WTP-GC]

Ski Pro 3 wrote:

wrktfsh wrote:
As a retired general contractor you would be surprized at how many people want something done X way. Yet it is totally against code and common sense.

Not really. Once you realize your customer is your boss. Every boss I've ever had or known would on occasion make demands that were against policy or company rules. It's no different really with the trades.

We recently had a customer request that we fix something that was broke. We fixed it. But he said we didn't fix it to the state it was in before it broke. We said "we didn't break it, but you asked us to fix it, so you tell us what state it was in and we'll try to achieve it." He couldn't tell us how it was before, only that what we did was not putting it back that way. Head scratcher. The customer became hostile toward us. As a good gesture, we figured out what the original state was and then we fixed it. Turned out, the problem we fixed was the reason why it broke in the first place. The customer said that he couldn't confirm that we didn't cause the problem (again broke before we were involved and called in special to fix it), so he wasn't going to pay for the "extra" work we did to solve his problem. Well, he's the boss and he was wrong to do that, but because the cost was so small, we have no reasonable recourse.

[Ski_Pro_3]

wrktfsh wrote:
As a retired general contractor you would be surprized at how many people want something done X way. Yet it is totally against code and common sense.

Not really. Once you realize your customer is your boss. Every boss I've ever had or known would on occasion make demands that were against policy or company rules. It's no different really with the trades.

[Ski_Pro_3]

WTP-GC wrote:

Your statement about the code being written by people who don't have a clue is flat out wrong. That's not to say that they don't have influence from lobbyists or politicians, but to say that it's written by politicians is incredibly false.

At least, here in California, they are written by bureaucrats. I'll define bureaucracy as a system of government in which most of the important decisions are made by state officials rather than by elected representatives. So I stand by my statement. If not politicians themselves, they are written by the people politicians have appointed and can remove from their positions.
Their websites end in .ca.gov then it's state run; AKA politicians.
Their boss, board or other head is elected into position, then it's run by politicians.
If their paycheck comes from the state of California, or what ever state they are in, it's run by politicians.
No different than say public schools, law or fire departments. The primary problem with it is that those in power are influenced by forces other than the absolute good of the craft. In this case, codes. In my other examples, teachers are forced into curriculum that makes no sense today at all. Police are not allowed to even touch an illegal alien and, in fact, are issued drivers licenses. Fire departments aren't allowed staffing to safe levels. All mandates by their bosses, the politicians and the bureaucrats they appoint.

But hey, I rant.

WTP-GC wrote:
Now, as a contractor, I don't always agree with the code and often wonder how it was determined, but that doesn't mean that the author was clueless.

No? yet in that instance that made you wonder, in your mind he probably was. He would have been in mine. Maybe not completely clueless, but plainly not on top of his game writing that one.

[Cummins12V98]

3" or 4" PVC or ABS is all fine. The cleanout is the RV connection point. Be sure it's 1/4" per foot slope minimum. YES 4" can be laid to 1/8" per foot but I would NOT recommend doing so!!!.

[wrktfsh]

2012Coleman wrote:

Ski Pro 3 wrote:

Bob/Olallawa wrote:
I think I agree with WPT-GC. If you hire a contractor to install per code and pull a permit, it is up to the contractor to do it right. OK to ask about placement but let the contractor do the job you hired him to do and the inspector to aprove the work.

Maybe in a perfect world, but contractors are notorious for doing shoddy work, skipping out half way through a job, not being there when things go wrong.
As far as 'to code', just remember that is the MINIMUM quality that is acceptable by a government bureaucracy, written by politicians who have NO mechanical, engineering or construction skills and lobbied by unions that are paid only to protect their members, not the clients who hire them.

Kind of like the contractor who told me that he didn't need a permit to install a new front door on my house - in FL, you do. Good thing I knew what questions to ask, otherwise I'd be on the hook to get it done correctly. Contractors who care about doing a good job correctly and pulling proper permits are becoming a rare breed. Ever been inside a newly built house? OP asked some good questions - nothing wrong with doing some research.

A permit to replace a front door is just a money grab by that city/county.