new to the forum!

[harley001]

looking at a fuzion 302 35 ft dry wt is 11,165 would my 2007 dodge ram 2500 pull this ok it is a toy hauler.

thanks for the help mike

[NC_Hauler]

Bedlam wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:
Heck, you can buy a license for almost any weight you want I figure. But what I'm saying is how safe is it to purchase tires that can carry more weight than the AXLE is rated at? Unless I'm just misunderstanding the whole post. Take a 6,084# rated axle, put tires on the truck that can handle a total of 9,000#, and now, though the axle is rated almost 3,000# less than the tire rating, I can now carry almost 3,000# more payload???:h Really don't think it works that way...unless, someone knows that the 6,084# RAWR isn't correct and that it'll actually handle the 9,000# that the tires can now carry....

You seem to pick and choose what I wrote. It is a Sterling 10.5" axle rated at 9750 lbs. The 6200 lb RAWR on my sticker is due to the lowest rated component that shipped with my truck. Upgrading tires, rims and suspension does bring up this rating as long as none of the individual components are over their rating.

GVWR is also possible to alter if you know that other similarly configured vehicles have a greater GVWR than yours. When you find the lower rated component that differentiates the vehicles and replace that component with a higher rated one, your GVWR can safely increase.

This takes time-consuming research into what components are used and what the component specifications are verses a combination of components. Some people are adept at this research and the required modifications while others are better off purchasing a different vehicle rather than upgrading an existing one.

No, I don't "pick and choose" what YOU post, I have no reason to do that. How can YOU ASSUME earlier in this thread that the OP "probably" has a rear axle rating of over 9,000# and just "take off from there"??:h My 2013 Ram 3500 DUALLY only has a RAWR of 9,750#..I find it extremely hard to believe that his 07 2500 has close to the the same RAWR as my 13' Dually......don't you??? I didn't assume, I went by what he stated. BUT, when I see where SOMEONE, don't know who...say's something about a 6,080# rated rear axle and they're being told to just add a tire that can handle more weight...seems like there is some assumptions going on there BEFORE the fact that we don't know about...so, to add tires to where it can handle 9,000#...THAT's what "I" was speaking to....

Heck, you have the same rear axle rating on your truck as I do on my 13'...and again, I REALLY don't care one way or the other...If someone had STATED they had a RAWR of 9,750# and it was limited by the OEM tires, hey, simple math, and I've had a LOT of that in my day's as an Engineer...have at it, BUT, when someone, I don't know who, states they have a rear axle rated at 6,000# and Doesn't qualify in the same post that it's ACTUALLY RATED AT 9,750#, sorry, I will wonder why they would add a tire that can carry more weight than the axle can handle.

"pick and choose" what you posted? hardly.....If I got your post mixed up with someone else's than my bad and I apologize..I don't see anything wrong with covering the axles weight rating with tires that can handle the axles weight rating. "I" was ADDRESSING if someone actually HAD a Rear axle rated at 6,000 whatever pounds (as was alluded to on here somewhere), and someone suggest going to a tire that will give them an additional 3,000# of cargo carrying capacity, that might not be the smart thing to do, IF they only have a rear axle weight rating at 6,000 something pounds.....

So how far do we got now...we've kicked out GVWR..it's a joke, a meaningless, useless number...hey, I'll even almost, but not yet, buy into that...but NOW, EVEN IF THE REAR AXLE HAS A POSTED RATING OF "WHATEVER"...I will also ignore that???? I mean if it ACTUALLY IS rated at what it's stated to be rated at..we just put higher weight range tires on it and it is now a 9,000 rated rear axle EVEN THOUGH, manufacturer STATES it's a 6,000# rated axle:h

Before long, as someone suggested sometime back, kick out 1500, 2500, 3500 SRW and 3500 DRW truck badging.. buy whatever truck you like, tow whatever you want with it, ignore most, if not all manufacturer recommended towing and hauling specs, buy some tires and airbags and go and just "hook up and go"...one could save a pile of money that way to be sure...

[NC_Hauler]

06Fargo wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:

Bedlam wrote:
I would not be surprised if the RAWR is based on his current tire capacity. When you find which axle your truck is using, you can then get the specifications on that axle to find the limits. For example, my truck runs the Sterling 10.5" axle rated at 9750 lbs. My GAWR was based off the tires that came on my truck even though the same frame, brakes, axle and suspension is used on other trucks with a higher rating than my 6200 lbs. I currently run 4500 lb rated rims with 4850 lb rated tires along with suspension aids to give me a 9000 lb RAWR.

And yet you still have a truck with a GVWR of 10,000#.

Agree with you OB...I don't understand how some think they can add tires that are rated to carry more weight than their axle and think all will be well....the axle and suspension have now become the weak link...Heck, if that were the case, I ought to be able to buy a 1/2 ton p/u, put G or H rated tires on it and I'll be able to handle thousands of pounds more then, though, the rear axle rating will be pushed well beyond it's limits..

Let's see, GVWR is a joke, very few, if any use that rating any more, "just a number", (reason I'm referred to as the weight police:)...THEN, I buy into RAWR, to a point, and if a 6,084# RAWR isn't enough...heck, can the OEM tires, and jack that sucker up to where it can handle 9,000# with the tires, though the axle is only rated at a little over 6,000#:h
IF ONLY it were THAT easy........

How much of the RAWR does one cut into? If it's rated at 6,000# (just an example), is it ok to to with a 4,000# pin weight in a 3/4 ton truck, knowing that we still 4 or 500 # reserve to carry through bumps, stops, etc? Just curious...

My 06 3500 Laramie has the same part number rear axle, springs, brakes, and frame as it's dual wheel SLT cousin. I've done exactly what was described - went to higher rated wheels and tires, so I would have a margin of tire capacity to spare when hauling at door sticker max weight, rather than run load range E tires at maximum. I also added an air suspension designed for the 3500 dually. So, do I now haul at the same weight all the time as a 3500 dually? No, but the truck can. I had the opportunity to load by weight 4500lbs payload of bulk material and the truck handled it no problem, just like it would if it were a dually.

Sticker axle ratings are based on the lowest rated component. If you have a 10,000 capacity axle and suspension factory equipped with 6000 capacity tires and wheels, the tires & wheels determine the sticker rating. If you change to 9,000lbs capacity tires your axle's designed capacity didn't change downward to 6000lbs it is still the same axle.

And if your truck started life as a chassis-cab rather than a pickup truck, re-rating by a certified body upfitter is "that easy" as it left the OEM as an incomplete vehicle and final sticker ratings are determined and can be changed by a body builder / equipment upfitter.

A pickup truck is a complete vehicle and no re-rating information is offered by Chrysler. I can't speak for other OEM's.

When I called Chrysler with my VIN and asked what is the minimum component that determined the door sticker ratings the answer was "we cannot see that information for your vehicle."

So I then did part number research with the help of a Chrysler dealer, comparing to a same year SLT dually.

A lot has changed since O6'.... You need to understand that...My 2013 Ram 3500 Dually has a 9750# Rated rear axle...the 3500 Single Rear wheel Ram only has a 7,000# rated rear axle. So, as you can see, and it's there for the research..there is NOW a 2,750# difference.

So you are right and I'm right....but I've owned dually's back to 05' and there was a difference in the spring packs also, if nothing more than an extra leaf or overload spring. NOT JUST THE TIRES ALL THE TIME.

Guess you're talking older trucks and I'm talking newer trucks...

I was also addressing the very topic we're talking about, not about something completely different. We were told he had a 6040# rated rear axle.(or somewhere in there), NOT A 9,000# REAR AXLE RATING. Again, He stated he had a little over a 6,000# rear axle rating..NOT A 9,000# REAR AXLE RATING. See the difference????? I would NEVER have said anything about anyone who had a 9,000# rated rear axle putting tires on with a heavier load range to cover the difference...BUT, someone putting tires on 6,000# rated rear axle to where it could handle 9,000#????? That makes sense to you????

AND AGAIN, I know absolutely no one, but idiots like me pay ANY attention to a trucks GVWR, we ALL know one can kick that number out because it is inanely ludicrous...BUT, at WHAT POINT does one stop digging into their RAWR???? IF I have a 9750# rated rear axle, and tires to cover that, do I see that I have 5,890# to play with, (I know my trucks weights), Do I load my truck to max RAWR and tow and haul like that and actually think it's safe and isn't wearing out some of my suspension??? I get the idea from some in here if one has a "X" amount rated RAWR....load to THAT now....heck, put a tire on that will handle MORE than the axle and have at it...THAT IS WHAT "I" WAS ADDRESSING, NOT WHAT "YOU" ARE TALKING ABOUT...re-read my post.......

Hey, your truck not mine, your towing, not me....forget GVWR, GCWR and play with RAWR only...put bigger tires on so you can CARRY even more than the rear axle is rated for, THAT is what "I" was talking about....I don't think THAT is safe and I think it would wear out one's suspension and if overloading the axle , also cause problems in that area...Never said ANYTHING about if one HAD a 9,000# RAWR, to keep it restricted...nope, never said that anywhere that I recollect.:h

[Bedlam]

NC Hauler wrote:
Heck, you can buy a license for almost any weight you want I figure. But what I'm saying is how safe is it to purchase tires that can carry more weight than the AXLE is rated at? Unless I'm just misunderstanding the whole post. Take a 6,084# rated axle, put tires on the truck that can handle a total of 9,000#, and now, though the axle is rated almost 3,000# less than the tire rating, I can now carry almost 3,000# more payload???:h Really don't think it works that way...unless, someone knows that the 6,084# RAWR isn't correct and that it'll actually handle the 9,000# that the tires can now carry....

You seem to pick and choose what I wrote. It is a Sterling 10.5" axle rated at 9750 lbs. The 6200 lb RAWR on my sticker is due to the lowest rated component that shipped with my truck. Upgrading tires, rims and suspension does bring up this rating as long as none of the individual components are over their rating.

GVWR is also possible to alter if you know that other similarly configured vehicles have a greater GVWR than yours. When you find the lower rated component that differentiates the vehicles and replace that component with a higher rated one, your GVWR can safely increase.

This takes time-consuming research into what components are used and what the component specifications are verses a combination of components. Some people are adept at this research and the required modifications while others are better off purchasing a different vehicle rather than upgrading an existing one.

[blt2ski]

If the OP was in washington state, he would take his tare of 63xx, lets say 6400 time 1.5 or 9600 to the next highest ton. And HAVE to buy a plate for 10K lbs, That would be his true legal gvwr per the LEO's and how the wt laws are enforced here. So his legal payload would be another 1000 lbs higher than the door sticker.

MOre than likely, he will be fine, but he will be near limits of the truck per say. I personally do not like to tow trailers over 2 to 2.25 times the grawr. So if it is 6100 lbs, 12200 lbs of trailer. Could get up to 13 to 13.5K lbs.....then the tail starts to wag the dog per say. Even if Dodge had a lets say 16K trailer limit, I would personally still limit my self to 12-13K lbs of total trailer.

marty

[harley001]

ok looked on the door
tires 265/70 17 10 ply
f gawr-4750
r gawr-6010

may need to step down mike

[Old-Biscuit]

harley001 wrote:
Hi guy's

running 245/75 17" 10 ply tires my toy is a 500# golf cart

thanks for the help.

So you have 3195# MAX Tire Load at MAX PSI 80#----6390# total on rear

Still need to look for a 5vr with a GVWR of around 12K

Have you considered a bumper pull tow hauler?

[harley001]

Hi guy's

running 245/75 17" 10 ply tires my toy is a 500# golf cart

thanks for the help.

[noteven]

NC Hauler wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:

Bedlam wrote:
I would not be surprised if the RAWR is based on his current tire capacity. When you find which axle your truck is using, you can then get the specifications on that axle to find the limits. For example, my truck runs the Sterling 10.5" axle rated at 9750 lbs. My GAWR was based off the tires that came on my truck even though the same frame, brakes, axle and suspension is used on other trucks with a higher rating than my 6200 lbs. I currently run 4500 lb rated rims with 4850 lb rated tires along with suspension aids to give me a 9000 lb RAWR.

And yet you still have a truck with a GVWR of 10,000#.

Agree with you OB...I don't understand how some think they can add tires that are rated to carry more weight than their axle and think all will be well....the axle and suspension have now become the weak link...Heck, if that were the case, I ought to be able to buy a 1/2 ton p/u, put G or H rated tires on it and I'll be able to handle thousands of pounds more then, though, the rear axle rating will be pushed well beyond it's limits..

Let's see, GVWR is a joke, very few, if any use that rating any more, "just a number", (reason I'm referred to as the weight police:)...THEN, I buy into RAWR, to a point, and if a 6,084# RAWR isn't enough...heck, can the OEM tires, and jack that sucker up to where it can handle 9,000# with the tires, though the axle is only rated at a little over 6,000#:h
IF ONLY it were THAT easy........

How much of the RAWR does one cut into? If it's rated at 6,000# (just an example), is it ok to to with a 4,000# pin weight in a 3/4 ton truck, knowing that we still 4 or 500 # reserve to carry through bumps, stops, etc? Just curious...

My 06 3500 Laramie has the same part number rear axle, springs, brakes, and frame as it's dual wheel SLT cousin. I've done exactly what was described - went to higher rated wheels and tires, so I would have a margin of tire capacity to spare when hauling at door sticker max weight, rather than run load range E tires at maximum. I also added an air suspension designed for the 3500 dually. So, do I now haul at the same weight all the time as a 3500 dually? No, but the truck can. I had the opportunity to load by weight 4500lbs payload of bulk material and the truck handled it no problem, just like it would if it were a dually.

Sticker axle ratings are based on the lowest rated component. If you have a 10,000 capacity axle and suspension factory equipped with 6000 capacity tires and wheels, the tires & wheels determine the sticker rating. If you change to 9,000lbs capacity tires your axle's designed capacity didn't change downward to 6000lbs it is still the same axle.

And if your truck started life as a chassis-cab rather than a pickup truck, re-rating by a certified body upfitter is "that easy" as it left the OEM as an incomplete vehicle and final sticker ratings are determined and can be changed by a body builder / equipment upfitter.

A pickup truck is a complete vehicle and no re-rating information is offered by Chrysler. I can't speak for other OEM's.

When I called Chrysler with my VIN and asked what is the minimum component that determined the door sticker ratings the answer was "we cannot see that information for your vehicle."

So I then did part number research with the help of a Chrysler dealer, comparing to a same year SLT dually.

[NC_Hauler]

rhagfo wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:

Bedlam wrote:
I would not be surprised if the RAWR is based on his current tire capacity. When you find which axle your truck is using, you can then get the specifications on that axle to find the limits. For example, my truck runs the Sterling 10.5" axle rated at 9750 lbs. My GAWR was based off the tires that came on my truck even though the same frame, brakes, axle and suspension is used on other trucks with a higher rating than my 6200 lbs. I currently run 4500 lb rated rims with 4850 lb rated tires along with suspension aids to give me a 9000 lb RAWR.

And yet you still have a truck with a GVWR of 10,000#.

Well if PNW means. Washington, then he can license for what ever he needs up to the tire rating.

Heck, you can buy a license for almost any weight you want I figure. But what I'm saying is how safe is it to purchase tires that can carry more weight than the AXLE is rated at? Unless I'm just misunderstanding the whole post. Take a 6,084# rated axle, put tires on the truck that can handle a total of 9,000#, and now, though the axle is rated almost 3,000# less than the tire rating, I can now carry almost 3,000# more payload???:h Really don't think it works that way...unless, someone knows that the 6,084# RAWR isn't correct and that it'll actually handle the 9,000# that the tires can now carry....

[NC_Hauler]

Old-Biscuit wrote:

Bedlam wrote:
I would not be surprised if the RAWR is based on his current tire capacity. When you find which axle your truck is using, you can then get the specifications on that axle to find the limits. For example, my truck runs the Sterling 10.5" axle rated at 9750 lbs. My GAWR was based off the tires that came on my truck even though the same frame, brakes, axle and suspension is used on other trucks with a higher rating than my 6200 lbs. I currently run 4500 lb rated rims with 4850 lb rated tires along with suspension aids to give me a 9000 lb RAWR.

And yet you still have a truck with a GVWR of 10,000#.

Agree with you OB...I don't understand how some think they can add tires that are rated to carry more weight than their axle and think all will be well....the axle and suspension have now become the weak link...Heck, if that were the case, I ought to be able to buy a 1/2 ton p/u, put G or H rated tires on it and I'll be able to handle thousands of pounds more then, though, the rear axle rating will be pushed well beyond it's limits..

Let's see, GVWR is a joke, very few, if any use that rating any more, "just a number", (reason I'm referred to as the weight police:)...THEN, I go with the trucks RAWR, to a point, and if a 6,084# RAWR isn't enough...heck, toss the OEM tires, and put some G or H rated tires on that sucker to where it can handle 9,000# with the tires, though the axle is only rated at a little over 6,000#:h ......IF ONLY it were THAT easy........

How much of the RAWR does one cut into? If axle is rated at 6,000# (just an example), is it ok to to drop a 4,000# pin weight in a 3/4 ton truck, knowing that we only have 4 or 500 lbs in reserve to tow the 5er over bumps, stops, up and down all around...heck, suspension should last forever with that scenario.

[rhagfo]

Old-Biscuit wrote:

Bedlam wrote:
I would not be surprised if the RAWR is based on his current tire capacity. When you find which axle your truck is using, you can then get the specifications on that axle to find the limits. For example, my truck runs the Sterling 10.5" axle rated at 9750 lbs. My GAWR was based off the tires that came on my truck even though the same frame, brakes, axle and suspension is used on other trucks with a higher rating than my 6200 lbs. I currently run 4500 lb rated rims with 4850 lb rated tires along with suspension aids to give me a 9000 lb RAWR.

And yet you still have a truck with a GVWR of 10,000#.

Well if PNW means. Washington, then he can license for what ever he needs up to the tire rating.

[Old-Biscuit]

Bedlam wrote:
I would not be surprised if the RAWR is based on his current tire capacity. When you find which axle your truck is using, you can then get the specifications on that axle to find the limits. For example, my truck runs the Sterling 10.5" axle rated at 9750 lbs. My GAWR was based off the tires that came on my truck even though the same frame, brakes, axle and suspension is used on other trucks with a higher rating than my 6200 lbs. I currently run 4500 lb rated rims with 4850 lb rated tires along with suspension aids to give me a 9000 lb RAWR.

And yet you still have a truck with a GVWR of 10,000#.

[rhagfo]

NC Hauler wrote:

Bedlam wrote:

MFL wrote:

harley001 wrote:
Mike, I think the TH, when loaded, may approach the truck tow rating.

However, the bigger problem may be the pin weight of the trailer, plus the weight of the hitch, passengers, etc. This may be around 3,000#s +. You may have to add extra spring, air-bags, tire capacity etc.

Just a few things to consider, hope it works for you,
Jerry

Ok guy's looked my truck up dodge ram 2500 quad cab 5.9l 4:10 rear end 2007

gvwr- 9,000 payload-2635 cwt-6365 gawr front-4630 rear-6000 gcwr-20,000


fifth wheel 2009 fuzion302 34' dry 11,165 what do you think!


mike

Most likely the axle has a rating over 9000 lbs, but the suspension and wheels will be your limiting factor. If you are set on getting this toy hauler look into the 19.5" wheels which will give you over 8000 lbs of wheel capacity on the rear. The truck will most likely squat under that weigh and SuperSprings or other suspension aids would be required to level you out.

Watch your GCWR - You will easily add 3000 lbs to the toy hauler once personal items, toys and water are added. I was about 4000 lbs heavier than dry when I had mine filled with toys and water for a long trip...

He stated his RAWR was 6,000#...I wouldn't want to put tires on that exceed the rating of the axle and make the axle the "weak link" in the towing formula.

Agree that he needs to use the 5er's GVW and figure pin weight from there as well as possible loaded weight added to weight of the truck...

The GVWR of that 5er is 14,405# dry pin is about 2,400# being a TH, the pin weight will not go up as much as a non TH 5er. What toys are you going to haul?
If your 2007 only has a GVWR of 9,000#, you will for sure be over your GVWR, but I have a hard time believing your rear axle only has a 6,000# rating, it should be at least 6,084, which is what the total tire rating is for the stock 245/75-16 E rated tires.

I don't recommend for others, but I tow over my GVWR, but well within axle and tire ratings.
My 5er weighs in at 11,000# with a listed GVWR of 12,500#, my pin is right at 2,000#.

Look at the VIN sticker on your drivers door jam, it should have the info for your truck.




NC Hauler, It isn't that axle that is the weak point, likely the springs, or stock tires. The Full floating axle in that truck is the same as the one for the one ton 3500.

[Bedlam]

I would not be surprised if the RAWR is based on his current tire capacity. When you find which axle your truck is using, you can then get the specifications on that axle to find the limits. For example, my truck runs the Sterling 10.5" axle rated at 9750 lbs. My GAWR was based off the tires that came on my truck even though the same frame, brakes, axle and suspension is used on other trucks with a higher rating than my 6200 lbs. I currently run 4500 lb rated rims with 4850 lb rated tires along with suspension aids to give me a 9000 lb RAWR.

[Old-Biscuit]

harley001 wrote:
Ok guy's looked my truck up dodge ram 2500 quad cab 5.9l 4:10 rear end 2007

gvwr- 9,000 payload-2635 cwt-6365 gawr front-4630 rear-6000 gcwr-20,000


fifth wheel 2009 fuzion302 34' dry 11,165 what do you think!


mike

Curb weight----6365 GVWR----9000 leaving a 2635# payload
Subtract 250# for 5th wheel hitch from that payload
Subtract 300# for 2 passengers
Subtract 100# of stuff in truck
That leaves you with a payload of 1985# (n this scenario---your trucks actual curb weight may be different)

That 11,165# DRY weight would have a pin weight around 2200#.....already over your payload and nothing is in trailer.

Again....weight your truck 'camp ready' (don't forget hitch weight)
Then find a trailer with a GVWR and 20% pin weight that actually fits your trucks available rating.

Buy a trailer that is within your trucks ratings that you can enjoy towing it----the more you enjoy towing it the more you will look forward to going VS I HATE TOWING THIS