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Observations from recent searches

norfla71
Explorer
Explorer
Long story short wife and I are researching a future purchase, and started looking at "full time" campers, after having owned aluminum Starcraft and Salem products that fell apart after a couple of years. We looked at brands everyone should know, Redwood, Landmark, Solitude and Pinnacle, to name a few, to avoid those same issues. Keep in mind these are my observations and opinions. Use them as a tool, but don't take anything here as definitive.

They all looked nice inside; the common theme seems to be bling over substance. Residential fittings, upgraded carpet, nice floor plans. However, after looking for hours, the bling becomes distracting, and they all start to blend together. I took a step back and started noticing the important details.

Price does not dictate quality. All were either at or approaching 6 figures. Keep in mind these are brand new units and considered "full time".
One of the Landmarks had a complete wall cover separating from the wall in the kitchen; bottom corner, about 2 feet and climbing. Was not properly stapled. Another had rust covering most of the frame (and was starting to penetrate the layers as evidenced by blistering and flaking). A Solitude had a cabinet door that flexed so much it broke the staples at the bottom edge. The Redwood had a musty smell, like there was an old leak. The Pinnacle had a bathroom door handle not installed; it was sitting on the bed. Most of them had cheap feeling "wood" trim that looked as if it would start peeling like my Salem did. Even the underbelly coverings we low quality; coated cardboard that most only attached with a few screws directly to the frame. At least the Solitude used strapping to spread out the stress. I've looked at much cheaper campers with better underbelly materials. I can't recall which, but one of them also had a cheap plastic faucet in the kitchen rather than the expected true residential unit.

From my online research, there are a few true "full time" campers being made; Spacecraft, DRV, Augusta, Renegade, New Horizon and others I've forgotten. From my research you can get into one of these new for not much more than the volume models. Spacecraft, for example, has units starting well below most of those, and you can customize, something not available with dealer stock brands. And the used market attests to the quality; I find a lot of the custom brands on the used market for substantially more than a comparable volume brand.

For transparency, we cannot afford those luxo liners, and are looking at smaller and lighter. We do not plan on full timing, but need something for extended stay that will also allow us full access to state parks and other areas where monster coaches won't fit. We wanted to know if spending more actually gets you better built; the answer is, sadly, no, just more expensive repairs. Our current choices are limited to about 25' (23 or less would be better) with minimal to no carpet, minimal or no slides, simple but comfortable floor plan, ease of repair and maintenance and low out the door cost (willing to spend more for better quality and durability).

Airstream is out; I saw a new $50k Bambi with a bunch of dents and creases on the curb side rear 1/4 and know, from experience, that will need replacement rather than repair; it's ugly and expensive to fix. Every Airstream I've seen on the road has some sort of damage. And we don't like any of the floorplans.

With that criteria current contenders are:

Keystone Bullet Crossfire 1800RB
Lance 2285 or 2295
Bigfoot 25B25RQ
Oliver Legacy Elite II standard


We know all trailers have potential issues, and Keystone is not highly rated in that area. However, if we're going to be stuck with potential issues, anyway, we're looking to spend as little as possible upfront. We like that floorplan and, with it being a basic box design, repairs and maintenance will be relatively simple. I plan on having a "lifetime" roof process done at some point, which will eliminate a large percentage of complaints.
2008 Ram 3500 SRW
2006 Salem 32SRV

***looking for a better truck this fall***
21 REPLIES 21

norfla71
Explorer
Explorer
CopilotCompanion wrote:


What Dan said in the first paragraph. It sounds like our criteria are very simlar. I'm finding it difficult to locate these used models in the South, however? Would you believe that I contacted Oliver about a price matrix & they emailed me one... including options? That was refreshing. I can't seem to get over their stove but in the larger scheme of things, I guess that's minor?


I also got a quick response from Anita at Oliver. If price were no object, it would be Oliver over Airstream every time. It's still too early to use price as a factor; something may change financially between now and purchase. For me, price isn't as important as layout; the Oliver is on the small side, and we would like more space inside. However, I don't believe there is a longer lasting trailer currently made. And I hear good things about their customer support. Same with Lance.
2008 Ram 3500 SRW
2006 Salem 32SRV

***looking for a better truck this fall***

norfla71
Explorer
Explorer
Alabama Jim wrote:
We toured the Riverside factory in Lagrange, In. and found they do a great job trying to build in quality. You can review what they have at Riverside dot com.


Just browsed their site. The local CW gets so many of the retro style trailers now I can't recall seeing an actual Retro there or not, definitely not a Mt McKinley. Looks nice.
2008 Ram 3500 SRW
2006 Salem 32SRV

***looking for a better truck this fall***

norfla71
Explorer
Explorer
Naio wrote:

The trick with houses is to buy pre-1970. That's where you get quality.


Too many potential issues if it hasn't been updated, most of which have nothing to do with structure. And, here in Florida, insurance can double the payment.

Somehow I keep getting sucked into off-topic discussions. Blame the AADD.
2008 Ram 3500 SRW
2006 Salem 32SRV

***looking for a better truck this fall***

Slownsy
Explorer
Explorer
Ducking for cover, but it is amassing hove many want Amarican quality, don't get me wrong I do understand supporting local industry, but som youst don't deserve it.
Frank.
Frank
2012 F250 XLT
4x4 Super Cab
8' Tray 6.2lt, 3.7 Diff.

Alabama_Jim
Explorer
Explorer
We toured the Riverside factory in Lagrange, In. and found they do a great job trying to build in quality. You can review what they have at Riverside dot com.

CopilotCompanio
Explorer
Explorer
DanNJanice wrote:
Based on your original post as I understand it, you want to buy the best "cheap" RV possible. Three of them, the Bigfoot, Lance, and Oliver are a cut above the Keystone. Of course last time I looked all three cost significantly more than the Keystone. Since you have these "better" trailers in your list I think you should also consider Arctic Fox, and Outdoor RV.
If you really just want cheap, then pick whatever is made by the Forest River or Thor monopolies, that has the best floor plan.Basically that is what we did, and got a Jayco 27RLS. Overall we have had a few issues, but have been happy with it, and don't regret the discision.


What Dan said in the first paragraph. It sounds like our criteria are very simlar. I'm finding it difficult to locate these used models in the South, however? Would you believe that I contacted Oliver about a price matrix & they emailed me one... including options? That was refreshing. I can't seem to get over their stove but in the larger scheme of things, I guess that's minor?
DH: Designated Curmudgeon
Lupรฉ the Rescue Dog: Self-appointed Tattletale
DW: Copilot & Companion
No offense intended. Sarcasm is my strong suit.

Naio
Explorer II
Explorer II
Grit dog wrote:
Ever live in a house over 10 years old? $100,000s for a house and they need work as they age too. Broke my cardinal rule of not buying a "used" house last time around. All previous homes were 0-2 ears old and we put another 2-5 years on them relatively maintenance free. Last one was built in 2000 and going on 17 hrs in a wet climate. Admittedly it's not the Best build quality either. It's builder grade materials in a custom home look, lol. It's a constant maintenance and repair project. A camper will be no different.
Good luck finding that maintenance free lifetime RV.


The trick with houses is to buy pre-1970. That's where you get quality.
3/4 timing in a DIY van conversion. Backroads, mountains, boondocking, sometimes big cities for a change of pace.

DanNJanice
Explorer
Explorer
Based on your original post as I understand it, you want to buy the best "cheap" RV possible. Three of them, the Bigfoot, Lance, and Oliver are a cut above the Keystone. Of course last time I looked all three cost significantly more than the Keystone. Since you have these "better" trailers in your list I think you should also consider Arctic Fox, and Outdoor RV.
If you really just want cheap, then pick whatever is made by the Forest River or Thor monopolies, that has the best floor plan.Basically that is what we did, and got a Jayco 27RLS. Overall we have had a few issues, but have been happy with it, and don't regret the discision.
2015 Jayco 27RLS
2015 F250 PSD

westend
Explorer
Explorer
Suggested:Lance RV or Oliver if you want that size and $$$ commitment. I also think the Livin Lite brand has a certain quality to it.
'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton

norfla71
Explorer
Explorer
qtla9111 wrote:
The rv industry is highly unregulated. I would trade bling, bells and whistles for a rig that didn't leak and lasted for a few years. For what we pay, be it 30K or some ridiculous price of 500K quality shouldn't be built into the price. It should be the same for everyone.

People talk a lot about buying American. Where's the beef?


It's heartbreaking. I can't believe the number of bad posts about rigs falling apart, catching fire or becoming unusable because of poor build quality, malfunctioning appliances or lack of customer support. I saw a $500k Grand Tour near me in the service bay with multiple slides that had come off track. When I asked the sales guy helping me, he told me the coach was 6 months old and it happened on first use. Once you're money is gone, so is the concern.
2008 Ram 3500 SRW
2006 Salem 32SRV

***looking for a better truck this fall***

norfla71
Explorer
Explorer
mds1 wrote:
Norfla71,

Some buy the trailer with all the construction options they want up front. Some buy a used or new unit and drag it around the country having it upgraded to get there.


Still searching but hope to get there. Good luck in your search.


We're planning on finding the best build quality in the floorplan we like, then upgrade as time goes on. Some are cosmetic, others more involved; none too expensive.
2008 Ram 3500 SRW
2006 Salem 32SRV

***looking for a better truck this fall***

norfla71
Explorer
Explorer
Grit dog wrote:
Ever live in a house over 10 years old? $100,000s for a house and they need work as they age too. Broke my cardinal rule of not buying a "used" house last time around. All previous homes were 0-2 ears old and we put another 2-5 years on them relatively maintenance free. Last one was built in 2000 and going on 17 hrs in a wet climate. Admittedly it's not the Best build quality either. It's builder grade materials in a custom home look, lol. It's a constant maintenance and repair project. A camper will be no different.
Good luck finding that maintenance free lifetime RV.


26 years old this fall; T1-11 siding near the gulf. Yes, I'm intimately familiar with old homes in humid areas. over 200sqft of siding replaced and counting.
2008 Ram 3500 SRW
2006 Salem 32SRV

***looking for a better truck this fall***

norfla71
Explorer
Explorer
Everyone,

If you re-read what I posted, at no time did I say we were looking for a "maintenance free lifetime rv", or the fact we started out looking at mega buck campers not intending to buy; please stop putting words into my post. If you look again, I explained the intentions, and was disappointed by the result. Again, we know very well the downfalls of buying a money pit, but want as few issues as possible, or the ability to correct them without having to rely on a dealer to haggle with someone at the factory to get work approved; warranties are a joke if the manufacturer doesn't stand behind them. I've dealt with the he said/she said concerning manufacturers v. dealers placing blame on warranty denial. I depend on my skill set to fix most things, and usually do a better job than repair facilities I've dealt with. We'll only be able to do this for so long, but don't want the payment to last beyond the trailer, either. And considering most warranties are limited to begin with, it's not something we're overly concerned about.

There is an Oliver in my area I may check out. I also like the fact it's built like a boat. As stated, however, it may be beyond our budget; starts at $50k, but approaches $70 with options.
2008 Ram 3500 SRW
2006 Salem 32SRV

***looking for a better truck this fall***

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
Ever live in a house over 10 years old? $100,000s for a house and they need work as they age too. Broke my cardinal rule of not buying a "used" house last time around. All previous homes were 0-2 ears old and we put another 2-5 years on them relatively maintenance free. Last one was built in 2000 and going on 17 hrs in a wet climate. Admittedly it's not the Best build quality either. It's builder grade materials in a custom home look, lol. It's a constant maintenance and repair project. A camper will be no different.
Good luck finding that maintenance free lifetime RV.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold