Overwhelmed and worried about safety

[hs4816]

Hi all. I know threads of "can I tow XYZ with my ABC" probably get annoying and I've been reading and reading and reading. But I'm overwhelmed and my partner and I have never towed anything before. This is a major purchase and I'm afraid if we don't have the physics/math sorted out we could buy something that ends up unsafe.

We have a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee with tow package. Unsure if it's a class 3 or 4 hitch, but will need to check that obviously. From what I can tell, the manufacturer recommended 6200 max pounds is pretty much a number to ignore and we should be focusing on tongue weight?

(all the dealers just keep saying we're fine and are pushing bigger/heavier units).

If my partner + me + baby + carseat = 510 pounds (round up to 550 pounds) and the Jeep has a limit of 1050 pounds for passenger + cargo, then that leaves us 500 pounds for the tongue weight (and no room to pack any gear at all in the car). Correct?

So if we are looking at a hybrid travel trailer that weighs 5400 fully loaded and the tongue weight is 10-15% of that (540-810) then that's too big for us. Right? Is there anyway to find out the exact tongue weight of a specific trailer before you buy it??

Or can I assume we will never fully load it and can keep it safely under 5400 pounds?

Also, our plan is to have sway bars, but is there a specific hitch type/brand you'd suggest we look at?

Seems like a tongue weight scale is an important purchase?

Any other thoughts??

[blt2ski]

At least you are not buying an equipment trailer. Manufactures rate payload based on the axel wt amount, WITH adiquite hitch wt. So if you have a trailer with 2 6000 lb axles, you have 12,000 lbs of payload, assuming you have 2800 lbs of hitch weight as my trailer weighs!

Reality is, you have to start with the base weight of a trailer, truck etc, add in normal stuff, add in some variable stuff you may or may not have full, ie water, LP, black and gray tanks. If you carry heavy stuff, or light stuff. Snow load on the roof! YES, snow load. Cam back from a 3 day stuck at the top of a mtn pass using my trailer as a ski hut, had 3000 lbs of snow after it snowed some 4' that weekend! That was 20 miles down the road before I found a scale! Probably double that at one point in time!

If you have a family of 6 as I do, you will load more into the trailer than a couple. Better to have too much chassis truck, than not enough. Too little engine, correct chassis truck for the load, IMHO is better than too much engine and not enough truck chassis!

Your mileage may vary on this too!

Marty

[drsteve]

hs4816 wrote:
Is there any way to figure out exactly what the tongue weihht will be, assuming the trailer is loaded to the maximum and the weight is distributed evenly. Like, what determines if its 12% or if its 15% -- trailer type? Hitch brand? Or is the only way to actually load it and measure it? (ie. Why dont trailer manufacturers list a "loaded tongue weight" as opposed to a dry hitch weight?

The only way to truly know is to go to the scales, or weigh it with a tongue scale. The manufacturer lists the dry tongue weight because that's the only one they can measure. They do not know how, or how much, the trailer will be loaded when in use.

[burningman]

Actual weights aren’t listed because they don’t want to scare buyers away, and because it’s impossible, it depends on too many variables.
Just know that the trailer will actually weigh a lot more than the brochure-listing weight.

A small SUV isn’t a heavy duty towing machine, doesn’t matter what engine or brand. It’s even less than a half-ton pickup. The wheelbase is too short and the parts aren’t truck-stout.
A short vehicle will never tow as well as a longer one. It’s just physics. Longer wheelbase is more stable with a trailer.
If you want to be comfortable and safe driving it, get a smaller lighter trailer or a bigger tow vehicle.

[Grit_dog]

Ok. Given you're showing 6200lbs tow capacity, I'll assume it has the 5.7 Hemi?
If it doesn't have this or the little diesel, I wouldn't want to hook a 5000lb sail behind it. It'll pull with the V6 but be wound up all the time.
All that said, my issue would be how the Jeeps suspension handles the weight. Just rented a new one for the week, V6, mid level model with the electronic suspension.
Nifty feature, but not for towing, IMO. Takes away the common options for suspension helpers.

[hs4816]

Is there any way to figure out exactly what the tongue weihht will be, assuming the trailer is loaded to the maximum and the weight is distributed evenly. Like, what determines if its 12% or if its 15% -- trailer type? Hitch brand? Or is the only way to actually load it and measure it? (ie. Why dont trailer manufacturers list a "loaded tongue weight" as opposed to a dry hitch weight?

BenK wrote:
Forgot to touch on the tongue weight questions

It should be in the 12% to 15% of the trailers actual weight.

Orientation should be level at it's highest pointing. Preference it to point slightly down below level

The trailer will follow best with the above conditions.

[BenK]

Forgot to touch on the tongue weight questions

It should be in the 12% to 15% of the trailers actual weight.

Orientation should be level at it's highest pointing. Preference it to point slightly down below level

The trailer will follow best with the above conditions.

[BenK]

Welcome and hope you find the answers to your questions

Here are some metrics & advice. Also suggest you read the previous posts from any advisor to get a sense of their stuff and if that stuff matches your values

First, decide if you believe in the manufacturers (OEM) ratings...and...the ratings systems that all OEMs must provide. Which is their contract to the owner....meaning that the performance is based on the maximum they list on their ratings info...plus modifiers listed in fine print.

If not, then do whatever or take the advice that best suits your values or what you want to hear...but, not to worry, as if you do believe in the ratings systems...gather these bits of information and learn how that system works. Boils down to doing a few things that seemingly the majority does not do...

Load up your planned TV as if ready to go RV'ing and weigh it axle by axle. That will provide a baseline basis for the simple math that this generic formula will show were you would be

GCWR >= TV + Trailer + WD Hitch + stuff loaded on/in both TV & trailer

All actual weights. If you do not have the trailer, use it's GVWR as the basis for this. There will/are many who boohoo using the trailer GVWR, but that is the maximum the trailer is rated for that you would use to do the simple math. If under, then more safety margin

All things designed/engineered is NOT for the good days out there when a riding lawn mower 'can' tow it...but for the bad day out there when Mr Murphy crosses your path.

Either you have the proper sized everything...set it up properly...spot on...or not. If not, there will be no time to go back to the store for proper sized whatever...or re-setup

This is performance is to the ratings maximum limit and is to manhandle the situation. Braking, accelerating, maneuvering, etc

Here are the acronyms and what they mean. You should search them yourself to check the validity

• GVWR...Gross Vehicle Weight Rating...what the OEM rates as it's maximum weight down to the pavement. Goes for both the TV and Trailer
• GCWR...Gross Combined Weight Rating. Is what both the TV, Trailer and everything loaded in and on them. Weight down to the pavement
• FGAWR...Front Gross Axle Weight Rating...what the front axle of your TV is rated to carry down to the pavement...sizing of the suspension, brakes, etc are based on this number by the engineers...plus some corporate allowed safety margin
• RGAWR...Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating...same as the FGAWR, just for the rear axle. This is the biggie, as most of the weight carried by the TV while towing is on this axle. As the drivers rear door edge is normally in the middle of the TV's wheelbase (distance between front and rear axles)
• MTWR...Maximum Tow Weight Rating. Not a good one to use, but most all OEMs advertise this number...which is derived form a stripper model, that many times is NOT sold. Understand that is the only way of it, the OEMs can only guess what their customers will have as options, aftermarket stuff, and the big one...what they will load up in/on their TV

Once you have weighed your TV fully loaded ready to go RV'ing plug that into the generic formula and go shopping. Look at the trailer's GVWR and plug that into the generic formula. Most are surprised at the result because they wanted to tow larger

The frontal area of the trailer a huge component on top of the weight info above. Think of flying a kit...say a 4'x8' sheet of plywood with a rope tied to the tail of the TV. It would lift a normal weight person into the air. Or if you have ever held a full sheet of plywood on a windy day...it will/can knock a person down

A TV must pull that in dead air and if a head wind...many times more effort (HP) will be required.

Good luck and ask lots of questions

[evanrem]

You are on the right track figuring it all out. In the end it’s all what the manufacturer says. For a tt max tow rate is never the number you should look at for what you can tow like you already figured out. If you are under everything you should be good to go but there are so many other variables and the closer to the max the less enjoyable the tow will be. Some people have a higher tolerance for sway and all the pushing and pulling that goes along with towing. Others don’t like it at all, that is camp i fall in. In the end my totally uneducated opion says that setup does not sound ideal but if the numbers work you should be good to go.

[drsteve]

A trailer that is 3500 lb loaded will have a tongue weight of around 450-525 lb. You should be looking at something like this: http://www.coachmenrv.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=63&ModelID=3872#Main

or this: http://www.coachmenrv.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=63&ModelID=1649#Main

These are just a couple of examples. There are many ultra lite trailers from many brands that will suit your needs.

[SoundGuy]

hs4816 wrote:
Where do I find this?? I was using the sticker inside door. "The combined weights of occupants plus cargo should never exceed 1050 lbs"

That's your particular vehicle's payload capacity as listed on the driver's side weight sticker BUT keep in mind it could be somewhat less if you've added any accessories to the vehicle. If you really want to know what your vehicle's actual, real world payload capacity is fill the tank and go weigh it. If you're in it at the time it's on the scale subtract your weight from the scale reading - the result will be your vehicle's actual curb weight as it sits there ready to be hitched to a trailer. Subtract that number from it's GVWR (also listed on the driver's side sticker) and the result will be the vehicle's actual payload capacity, that which you will use to account for the weight of everyone and all cargo in it at the time you're towing plus any trailer tongue weight transferred from the trailer to the vehicle once hitched up. With a vehicle like this you'll be shocked at how little you have to work with. :E

[kerrlakeRoo]

hs4816 wrote:
Where do I find this?? I was using the sticker inside door. "The combined weights of occupants plus cargo should never exceed 1050 lbs"

kerrlakeRoo wrote:
OP, double check your load capacity on your jeep. I just googled 2015 jeep towing capacity and came up with tow numbers right in your range but load capacities well above, ranging from 1350 to 1955 lbs. Installed options and other items can change that, but your current number seems low.
On your tongue weight, you may not be considering the weight as used in the real world. Dealers will give you a tongue weight which is from when it rolled off the factory floor, before batteries, (45lbs each), Propane and tanks, (35-50lbs each) are added to the tongue. Also remember that the weight dist hitch will add 80 to 100 lbs to your load.

Your correct in looking at the door pillar. The only other suggestion would be to go to a scale and weigh the unit.
Does seem strange that the number differs so much.

[DutchmenSport]

I once towed a 5000 pound travel trailer with a Chevy Suburban 1500 and destroyed the transmission after 3 months. Ended up putting a new transmission in it and then it really pulled horrible. We ended up getting our first 3500 dually after that.

Your Cherokee will probably tow safely a small utility trailer and that's about all.

[hs4816]

Where do I find this?? I was using the sticker inside door. "The combined weights of occupants plus cargo should never exceed 1050 lbs"

kerrlakeRoo wrote:
OP, double check your load capacity on your jeep. I just googled 2015 jeep towing capacity and came up with tow numbers right in your range but load capacities well above, ranging from 1350 to 1955 lbs. Installed options and other items can change that, but your current number seems low.
On your tongue weight, you may not be considering the weight as used in the real world. Dealers will give you a tongue weight which is from when it rolled off the factory floor, before batteries, (45lbs each), Propane and tanks, (35-50lbs each) are added to the tongue. Also remember that the weight dist hitch will add 80 to 100 lbs to your load.

[kerrlakeRoo]

OP, double check your load capacity on your jeep. I just googled 2015 jeep towing capacity and came up with tow numbers right in your range but load capacities well above, ranging from 1350 to 1955 lbs. Installed options and other items can change that, but your current number seems low.
On your tongue weight, you may not be considering the weight as used in the real world. Dealers will give you a tongue weight which is from when it rolled off the factory floor, before batteries, (45lbs each), Propane and tanks, (35-50lbs each) are added to the tongue. Also remember that the weight dist hitch will add 80 to 100 lbs to your load.

[stew47]

I wouldn’t tow near 6000 with a Cherokee. I pulled a 4400 lb trailer with a suburban and hated it. Maybe pull it behind a nice used motor home.