Pick Up towing a Van

[caredwoods]

I am planning to tow a Chevy G20 van across country with an F150 Pick Up , Towing Dinghy... with a tow bar.
I have been doing a lot of research to be sure what I do is safe.
Something that I have not found answers on is whether or not the front wheels of the tow vehicle should be locked or free to turn. The drive shaft will be removed.
If anyone can offer advise I would appreciate it much!
Thank You ! John

[carringb]

Towing a vehicle that weighs more than the vehicle doing the towing isn't all that bad. Yes, you can feel it back there, especially on badly rutted highways. Just be sure all towing components (truck's receiver, tow bar, bracket, safety chain etc) is rated for more than the van, and drive appropriately for the load and conditions. A supplementary braking system will be a must for that combination, but be sure to use engine braking to control downhill speeds, to ensure your brakes are still nice and cool for emergency stops.

[caredwoods]

I would sincerely like to thank everyone who took their time and gave their input on this, Our trip from Cali to NY was a breeze, My Ford F150 fully loaded towing my 88 Chevy van fully loaded, most times we could barely tell a vehicle was in tow, with the exception of hills of course.
I won't be following this forum any longer.
Thank You and Happy Holidays

[Reddog1]

mowermech wrote:
... I would be very interested in finding a list of towing laws that was 100% accurate!

I too would be vary interested. I researched several list, and could find none that were even complete, much less accurate. I discovered this to be especially true on sites that sold braking systems. Actually, I think they were like having Jessie James guarding the bank.

Wayne

[Hikerdogs]

There's been a lot of discussion as to the legalities of towing with or without brakes. However there are standards and recommendations by the manufacturers that are just as important. In the case of Ford trucks the manufacturer makes the following statement:

"The braking system of the tow vehicle is rated for operation at the
GVWR not GCWR".

This is similar to the statement the make in the F53 chassis manual. The only difference being that in the F53 manual they also say anything weighing over 1,500 lbs. requires an auxiliary braking system. They don't get into the legalities or semantics of what constitutes a trailer. They simply say ANYTHING weighing over 1,500 lbs. requires brakes

[mowermech]

klutchdust wrote:
""Yes, definitely check the laws in the states you will be traveling through. If for no other reason, because the above statement just is not true!
DO NOT, however, put any trust in any so-called "List Of Towing laws" on the internet. I have looked at a lot of them, and I have yet to see one that I would rely on to be accurate!"

Really? chuckle chuckle......

What do you find worthy of "chuckles"?
Can you prove it wrong?
If so, please share the humor with the rest of us.
I would be very interested in finding a list of towing laws that was 100% accurate!

[klutchdust]

""Yes, definitely check the laws in the states you will be traveling through. If for no other reason, because the above statement just is not true!
DO NOT, however, put any trust in any so-called "List Of Towing laws" on the internet. I have looked at a lot of them, and I have yet to see one that I would rely on to be accurate!"

Really? chuckle chuckle......

[mowermech]

MCA 61-1-101 (82) (a) & (b):
"(82) (a) "Trailer" means a vehicle, with or without motive power, other than a pole trailer, designed for carrying property and for being drawn by a motor vehicle and constructed so that no part of its weight rests on the towing vehicle.
(b) The term does not include a mobile home or a manufactured home, as defined in 15-1-101."

Note that a "trailer" is "...designed for carrying PROPERTY and for being DRAWN BY A MOTOR VEHICLE...".
Most motor vehicles are designed for carrying PEOPLE, and must be MODIFIED to be drawn by a motor vehicle.
Yes, I am well aware that MCA only applies to vehicles operated in Montana!

[Reddog1]

mowermech wrote:

Reddog1 wrote:

navegator wrote:
The State of California does not require a brake system on a towed vehicle as in cars, SUV's, small trucks only on trailers over 1500 pounds, the CHP uses a performance criteria if involved in an accident they add the weight of the towed vehicle to the vehicle towing if combined weights are more than the CCC of the towing vehicle you are in trouble, on the other hand if the towed vehicle has a brake system they consider it a a trailer.

This information comes from the California Highway Patrol as told to me by several Officers that I asked over several years.

navegator

I think this is only part true. Calif does require towed vehicle brakes is you can stop a certain distance from a specified speed. A breakaway brake is required on all towed vehicles as I recall.

Lots of info here.

The link does not work....

OOPs, maybe this will work..
Towing A Jeep Redux.

Another good thread: Dinghy Breaks -- and the law?. Especially note the 2nd post by hwybnb. It is worth noting, hwybnb is a CHP.

With all due respect, there are laws in California on towing. I too have ask several CHPs over the years and I have never received the same answer twice. The Vehicle Code book is is exceptionally large. I do not think it reasonable to expect the typical CHP to know it all.

Usually, the mistake is made distinguishing between trailers and towed vehicles. As I recall, it is the trailers that do not require brakes if below 1500 pounds.

It is not an easy read, but important enough I think people should at least try to read the code book if they really want to know.

Wayne

EDIT: I think maybe the forum software is preventing the link from working.

[rjstractor]

Hikerdogs wrote:
This may be true in some cases, but not necessarily in all cases. We have a 2010 Ford Expedition that weighs in at 6,100 lbs. It has a towing capacity of 9,200 lbs. We regularly to a 2 axle trailer with loads varying from 3,000 lbs. to 9,000 lbs. without any problems. The only caveat is the trailer must be equipped with it's own brakes. In our case both axles have 12" Dexter electric brakes.

Towing a trailer, sure. Towing a vehicle four down is a whole different dynamic. I had a white-knuckle experience towing a 3000 pound Ford Focus with a 6000 pound Chevy 2500HD once. The tow bar angled up slightly. When I had to stop quickly on a wet road, the weight of the car unloaded the already light rear axle of the truck and it almost pushed me sideways. The truck's ABS saved me. This was despite the fact that the truck had enough payload to actually carry the Focus. When towing the same car with a 13,000 pound motorhome I didn't have to worry about the car pushing me around.

[navegator]

California does not require brakes on motorized vehicles that are being towed, I asked three different Highway Patrol Officers all three responses where the same only trailers over 1500 in weight need brakes, a vehicle (motorized vehicle not a trailer) being towed by a motor home falls under the performance rule, many of the other States also have this rule the manufacturers of brake systems want you to purchase a brake system.

If having a brake system when towing a car behind an RV was a requirement, every law enforcement agency would be stopping RV's to check and ticket them, I do not have the book with me, read the book no where does it require an RV towing a car to have a brake system for the car, only trailers of 1500 and up.

navegator

[Hikerdogs]

mowermech wrote:
When towing a vehicle, the towed should not weigh more than the tower.
What are the weights of the two vehicles?
Based on an experience my son had, I would not do what you are describing!

This may be true in some cases, but not necessarily in all cases. We have a 2010 Ford Expedition that weighs in at 6,100 lbs. It has a towing capacity of 9,200 lbs. We regularly to a 2 axle trailer with loads varying from 3,000 lbs. to 9,000 lbs. without any problems. The only caveat is the trailer must be equipped with it's own brakes. In our case both axles have 12" Dexter electric brakes.

[mowermech]

Reddog1 wrote:

navegator wrote:
The State of California does not require a brake system on a towed vehicle as in cars, SUV's, small trucks only on trailers over 1500 pounds, the CHP uses a performance criteria if involved in an accident they add the weight of the towed vehicle to the vehicle towing if combined weights are more than the CCC of the towing vehicle you are in trouble, on the other hand if the towed vehicle has a brake system they consider it a a trailer.

This information comes from the California Highway Patrol as told to me by several Officers that I asked over several years.

navegator

I think this is only part true. Calif does require towed vehicle brakes is you can stop a certain distance from a specified speed. A breakaway brake is required on all towed vehicles as I recall.

Lots of info here.

The link does not work....

[caredwoods]

Thank You all forthis information, It's very helpful and I really appreciate you taking your time to help. Safety is my main concern, I certainly don't want to ba a hazzard on the road and I'm in no hurry to get where I am going. I have a week yet before leaving
, I'll post here from the east coast to update

[Reddog1]

navegator wrote:
The State of California does not require a brake system on a towed vehicle as in cars, SUV's, small trucks only on trailers over 1500 pounds, the CHP uses a performance criteria if involved in an accident they add the weight of the towed vehicle to the vehicle towing if combined weights are more than the CCC of the towing vehicle you are in trouble, on the other hand if the towed vehicle has a brake system they consider it a a trailer.

This information comes from the California Highway Patrol as told to me by several Officers that I asked over several years.

navegator

I think this is only part true. Calif does require towed vehicle brakes is you can stop a certain distance from a specified speed. A breakaway brake is required on all towed vehicles as I recall.

Lots of info here.