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Propane Tank Vacuum Purge

1L243
Explorer II
Explorer II
I purchased new 30# tanks for my RV. They came shipped to the house with a sticker that says they have to be vacuum purged. This does not sound like something the local propane filler can do? Is it necessary and if it is what's the procedure?
2017 Coleman 300tq by Dutchman Toy Hauler. 34.5 feet long and under 10k Gross. 500 watt Solar 2000 watt Inverter, 1999 Ford F250 2WD 7.3 4R100 DP Tuner, S&B Cold Air Intake, Gauges, 6.0 Trans Cooler, Air Bags.
25 REPLIES 25

Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Explorer III
SDcampowneroperator wrote:
Bobbo wrote:
SDcampowneroperator wrote:
Its a gimmick. Fuel to air ratios fall between the too rich and too lean for combustion, even then there has to be an ignition source in that critical % state in side the container.

It has never happened. Purging is just a gimmick used by suppliers to charge you for something you do not need. Big tanks like 500 gallon tanks are shipped and filled with air at atmospheric pressure. They are not vacummed or purged. The negligable air and oxygen becomes too rich of a mixture to burn,

Propane 101
Ask your local firefighter.


The potential water vapor could be a concern IF filled on 100% humidity day, IF used on much a colder day in which the tank empties to allow the water to boil. Otherwise, water will become and remain liquid until the pressure drops so low as to cause it to boil off or to freeze dry. That would be far below the boiling point of propane at -44.3 f Niether is ever likely or documented. It just cant happen

Talk to your local firefighter. not your propane supplier Its akin to asking to a used car salesman vs a scientist One will tell you its safe , the other truth. both will tell you its safe
Talk to your local fireman!

Ever notice how people who have little or no knowledge of a subject are the most ardent in their opinions? I will take a propane supplier's word over a "firefighter's" word any day concerning propane. Note that a "propane supplier" is not the local UHaul guy or campground employee pumping propane.

I have both firefghter training in 45 years of hazardous material training and propane supplier certification. Back that up with 24 years of pipeline welding on flammable gaslines and 19 years of filling propane in the camp we operated and sold this year. Call me and all the firefighters as uneducated ?
You who discount the facts I write of need to go back to grade school and recall basic chemistry and the basics of air, water, fuel,
Purging air out of a propane bottle is an unneccessary task. The very slight amount of oxygen is absorbed into the gas and enhances the fuel.
Insome states, Oxygenation of gasoline is mandated!
Massive pipelines are not purged.of air. Effort is made to evacuate water after hydrotesting the remaing water will evaporate into the fuel gas overtime with no harm to the end user.
What benefit to purge a tiny cylinder other than to
address the fears of the uneducated?
Yes I do note that the uneducated with little knowledge and inexperienced are the first to be ardent I have science, experience, training, and all professionals in related fields to verify. naysayers have fear of that which they have not educated about.


Not sure where you got your propane training but you might want to consider a few facts:
*New propane containers are hydrostatically tested for leaks before shipment (water)
*Filled with air pressure for shipment... Air contains moisture and other contaminants
*Any moisture present from the container to the inlet of the pressure regulator can cause the regulator to freeze up
*moisture increases the possibility of rust forming inside
*moisture causes the odor of mercaptan to fade to the point that it might not be noticeable

Purging removes the air, moisture, and contaminants
Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
US NAVY------USS Decatur DDG31

SDcampowneroper
Explorer
Explorer
Bobbo wrote:
SDcampowneroperator wrote:
Its a gimmick. Fuel to air ratios fall between the too rich and too lean for combustion, even then there has to be an ignition source in that critical % state in side the container.

It has never happened. Purging is just a gimmick used by suppliers to charge you for something you do not need. Big tanks like 500 gallon tanks are shipped and filled with air at atmospheric pressure. They are not vacummed or purged. The negligable air and oxygen becomes too rich of a mixture to burn,

Propane 101
Ask your local firefighter.


The potential water vapor could be a concern IF filled on 100% humidity day, IF used on much a colder day in which the tank empties to allow the water to boil. Otherwise, water will become and remain liquid until the pressure drops so low as to cause it to boil off or to freeze dry. That would be far below the boiling point of propane at -44.3 f Niether is ever likely or documented. It just cant happen

Talk to your local firefighter. not your propane supplier Its akin to asking to a used car salesman vs a scientist One will tell you its safe , the other truth. both will tell you its safe
Talk to your local fireman!

Ever notice how people who have little or no knowledge of a subject are the most ardent in their opinions? I will take a propane supplier's word over a "firefighter's" word any day concerning propane. Note that a "propane supplier" is not the local UHaul guy or campground employee pumping propane.

I have both firefghter training in 45 years of hazardous material training and propane supplier certification. Back that up with 24 years of pipeline welding on flammable gaslines and 19 years of filling propane in the camp we operated and sold this year. Call me and all the firefighters as uneducated ?
You who discount the facts I write of need to go back to grade school and recall basic chemistry and the basics of air, water, fuel,
Purging air out of a propane bottle is an unneccessary task. The very slight amount of oxygen is absorbed into the gas and enhances the fuel.
Insome states, Oxygenation of gasoline is mandated!
Massive pipelines are not purged.of air. Effort is made to evacuate water after hydrotesting the remaing water will evaporate into the fuel gas overtime with no harm to the end user.
What benefit to purge a tiny cylinder other than to
address the fears of the uneducated?
Yes I do note that the uneducated with little knowledge and inexperienced are the first to be ardent I have science, experience, training, and all professionals in related fields to verify. naysayers have fear of that which they have not educated about.

CavemanCharlie
Explorer II
Explorer II
1L243 wrote:
Ok, I rechecked the stickers. The sticker doesn't Vacuum Purge it says VACUUM PURGED!

So, should I assume that the tanks have been purged already and are ready to fill?


Yes, I would assume that they are ready to go.

Bobbo
Explorer II
Explorer II
dedmiston wrote:
but the average propane monkeys

Note that I differentiated between propane suppliers and "the average propane monkeys."

Bobbo wrote:
Note that a "propane supplier" is not the local UHaul guy or campground employee pumping propane.
Bobbo and Lin
2017 F-150 XLT 4x4 SuperCab w/Max Tow Package 3.5l EcoBoost V6
2017 Airstream Flying Cloud 23FB

Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Explorer III
rhagfo wrote:
Old-Biscuit wrote:
New propane cylinders are shipped either with 100# Air pressure OR under a vacuum

Air Pressure........Cylinders need to be 'Vapor Purged' 4 times to remove all air

Vacuum......propane vendor just fills them. NO Purging necessary


Check that 'sticker' again.


Why is some of this stuff so hard for people to understand??
Thanks Old-Biscuit!


Lack of Real Information, lack of comprehension, misunderstanding etc
OR just plain stubborn
New Cylinders shipped with air pressure NEED purging and it is not a gimmick as some would have you think.
Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
US NAVY------USS Decatur DDG31

Dutch_12078
Explorer II
Explorer II
theoldwizard1 wrote:

Every time I get my tank refilled, they open the overflow (?) valve and fill until propane comes out. No air left !


That "overflow" valve is actually the "Fixed Liquid Level Gauge". When the escaping vapor turns to escaping liquid the tank or cylinder is filled to the maximum legal 80% of the liquid capacity to allow for expansion.
Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F53 chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
Bigfoot Automatic Leveling System
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/Blue Ox baseplate

rhagfo
Explorer III
Explorer III
Old-Biscuit wrote:
New propane cylinders are shipped either with 100# Air pressure OR under a vacuum

Air Pressure........Cylinders need to be 'Vapor Purged' 4 times to remove all air

Vacuum......propane vendor just fills them. NO Purging necessary


Check that 'sticker' again.


Why is some of this stuff so hard for people to understand??
Thanks Old-Biscuit!
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"

dedmiston
Moderator
Moderator
I dunno about that, Bobo. I grew up in a fire family, and dad and all his buddies really knew their stuff. They studied and drilled on this stuff all the time. I wouldn't discount their expertise for a second.

Not that good LP guys aren't knowledgeable too, but the average propane monkeys don't seem to be. How many times have you had someone refill your tanks and not even bother wearing gloves or eye protection? They may have standards somehow, but I don't see it in practice, and I don't detect a lot of training or science in what they do.

2014 RAM 3500 Diesel 4x4 Dually long bed. B&W RVK3600 hitch โ€ข 2015 Crossroads Elevation Homestead Toy Hauler ("The Taj Mahauler") โ€ข <\br >Toys:

  • 18 Can Am Maverick x3
  • 05 Yamaha WR450
  • 07 Honda CRF250X
  • 05 Honda CRF230
  • 06 Honda CRF230

Bobbo
Explorer II
Explorer II
SDcampowneroperator wrote:
Its a gimmick. Fuel to air ratios fall between the too rich and too lean for combustion, even then there has to be an ignition source in that critical % state in side the container.

It has never happened. Purging is just a gimmick used by suppliers to charge you for something you do not need. Big tanks like 500 gallon tanks are shipped and filled with air at atmospheric pressure. They are not vacummed or purged. The negligable air and oxygen becomes too rich of a mixture to burn,

Propane 101
Ask your local firefighter.


The potential water vapor could be a concern IF filled on 100% humidity day, IF used on much a colder day in which the tank empties to allow the water to boil. Otherwise, water will become and remain liquid until the pressure drops so low as to cause it to boil off or to freeze dry. That would be far below the boiling point of propane at -44.3 f Niether is ever likely or documented. It just cant happen

Talk to your local firefighter. not your propane supplier Its akin to asking to a used car salesman vs a scientist One will tell you its safe , the other truth. both will tell you its safe
Talk to your local fireman!

Ever notice how people who have little or no knowledge of a subject are the most ardent in their opinions? I will take a propane supplier's word over a "firefighter's" word any day concerning propane. Note that a "propane supplier" is not the local UHaul guy or campground employee pumping propane.
Bobbo and Lin
2017 F-150 XLT 4x4 SuperCab w/Max Tow Package 3.5l EcoBoost V6
2017 Airstream Flying Cloud 23FB

theoldwizard1
Explorer
Explorer
rhagfo wrote:
Just means that the propane dealer doesnโ€™t need to use propane to purge the air from the tanks. Otherwise they need to put a small amount of propane in the tank then release it to flush any air out of the tank.

Every time I get my tank refilled, they open the overflow (?) valve and fill until propane comes out. No air left !

Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Explorer III
time2roll wrote:
Just have it filled and go camping.


Exactly....
That propane cylinder was shipped under a vacuum (vs air pressure)
Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
US NAVY------USS Decatur DDG31

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad

mobeewan
Explorer
Explorer
Purge might be good as long as someone hasn't turned the valve handwheel or opened the spitter screw.

There is a one way built in check valve that doesn't allow propane to flow out unless it is depressed when the acme nut or POL fitting is screwed into the cylinder valve. It is also depressed when the tank is filled.

With the cylinder under vacuum the poppet could open drawing air into the cylinder if the handwheel is turned. Air can also enter the cylinder if the spitter screw is opened.

A propane supplier told me if the cylinder is more than 6 months old he purges them with propane vapor anyways.

1L243
Explorer II
Explorer II
Ok, I rechecked the stickers. The sticker doesn't Vacuum Purge it says VACUUM PURGED!

So, should I assume that the tanks have been purged already and are ready to fill?
2017 Coleman 300tq by Dutchman Toy Hauler. 34.5 feet long and under 10k Gross. 500 watt Solar 2000 watt Inverter, 1999 Ford F250 2WD 7.3 4R100 DP Tuner, S&B Cold Air Intake, Gauges, 6.0 Trans Cooler, Air Bags.