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RV Fuel Issues & Prices - Post 'Em Here!

Dick_A
Explorer
Explorer
All other fuel threads will be automatically deleted. ๐Ÿ™‚
2009 Tiffin 43QBP Allegro Bus
RoadMaster Sterling Tow Bar
US Gear UTB
Ford Explorer Sport Toad
WA7MXP
"Pisqually" the attack kitty :B
4,897 REPLIES 4,897

Fezziwig
Explorer
Explorer
Hydrogen is very interesting (I was a member of the AHA for many years and saw many pilot systems). Basically, Hydrogen is a recyclable energy carrier. You can use electrical energy to separate H from H2O, carry the H to where you need energy, then recover the energy by combining with Oxygen from the atmosphere. The byproduct is good old H2O which goes back into our life-sustaining environment as part of the water cycle (which is sort of a miracle). Hydrogen can also be burned in an Internal Combustion engine, I've seen it and it works, but is finnicky.

The simplest Hydrogen strategy is to use solar power to make H then tanker or pipe it to places where it's needed. All the energy the USA needs falls on a plot of land about 90 miles on a side in the Nevada desert. Every day.

We should divert government subsidies from some deadend oil projects to a solar-hydrogen project like this. But the oil companies (60% owned by foreigners) have a stranglehold on our government through their lobbyists who openly bribe politicians with the Supreme Courts approval.

Unless we shake off this subservience to foreigners we are doomed.

SRT
Explorer
Explorer
Fezziwig wrote:
- SNIP -

Our best hope for the future is to develop indigenous energy sources, not dependent on foreign countries, such as wind, solar, methanol, geothermal, (maybe even nuclear) which is not subject to international markets, because foreigners hungry for oil luxury (they learned it from us) are going to bid up the prices even more. In the long term we must develop alternatives to oil or suffer tremendous loss of living standards. Fortunately that can be rather easily done, if we decide to do it, and set about that work the way that we built the railroads and the highway system, the airplane system, canals, and all the armaments, etc. You know, the way we won the war, back when we knew how to do those things.

So enjoy your 8mpg RV while gas is only $4/gallon because it can only get worse.


I still think we should really explore using hydrogen as a fuel. Yes, I know, producing it can be expensive. But if we had another "Manhattan Project" we could probably find a low cost solution to producing hydrogen as a fuel as it is very plentiful (H2O for example).

Fezziwig
Explorer
Explorer
Oil and Gas prices are determined by international free markets where oil from all over the world is traded. We only consume about 20% of international oil so our influence as consumers is limited to that degree. And the 20% is shrinking every year as US demand diminishes (largely due to conservation and improved efficiency, i.e., better gas mileage). China and India each consume more oil than the US every year as their standards of living increase. And their consumption increases every year, so they become more important and influential customers for oil every year, and they bid up gas prices.

Thus, every year more and more control of gas prices (through demand) passes to China and India. Even at the very high prices that $4 gas represent to Chinese/Indians who only make a fraction of US wages. Even at those high prices the demand increases every year as they industrialize and more people enter the lower middleclass (and luxury class, too).

To the average Indian or Chinese the concept of driving a 30 foot motorhome hundreds of miles almost every weekend while getting only 8 mpg seems an extraordinary thing, even a fantasy. Nobody does that in their countries.

Even though their cars get 40mpg and they buy gas by the litre (quart) there are so many people trying to squeeze into the next higher class, and so many super rich who drive expensive gas-guzzlers, that their consumption is really booming. China has 4 times the US population and India 3 times, so they have immense headroom for their consumption to expand into, even though they pay the same base price as the US ($4/gallon) and have huge taxes added on.

We may get a chance to live that poor miserable life of the Chinese if the lords of Wall Street outsource more US business and jobs and our wages drop to meet those of a Chinese peasant (thus forming the New American Peasantry).

All of this makes sense if you read the facts at the EIA.org (part of the DOE) and more useful (to highschool grads who were awake in their math classes) than the oversimplifications that the DOE itself sometimes publishes. It also helps to read American Petroleum Institute (API) journal or other trade papers that have facts as well as editorials.

Our best hope for the future is to develop indigenous energy sources, not dependent on foreign countries, such as wind, solar, methanol, geothermal, (maybe even nuclear) which is not subject to international markets, because foreigners hungry for oil luxury (they learned it from us) are going to bid up the prices even more. In the long term we must develop alternatives to oil or suffer tremendous loss of living standards. Fortunately that can be rather easily done, if we decide to do it, and set about that work the way that we built the railroads and the highway system, the airplane system, canals, and all the armaments, etc. You know, the way we won the war, back when we knew how to do those things.

So enjoy your 8mpg RV while gas is only $4/gallon because it can only get worse.

Likes_to_tow
Nomad
Nomad
It was announced on national news less than two weeks ago that petroleum is the number one export of the United States. Tonight on evening news it was announced that gasoline prices will have a significant upward spike very soon due to higher demand and by Memorial Day we could be paying the highest prices ever!!!!!! Brazil was given huge incentives to do offshore drilling and Obama Osama said "we want to be their number one customer." The green boys at EPA will not allowing drilling in Alaska. And we are exporting our oil like someone is hell bent on destroying America.

Is anyone driving or are they all in the back seat singing????

Sick and tired of being..........sick and tired.

SRT
Explorer
Explorer
Well, it seems that gas prices around here have "stabilized" at $3.29. Diesel is $3.99. Hope the prices don't go any higher, ya right.....:R

SRT
Explorer
Explorer
Bumpyroad wrote:
just one quick question re $5.00 gasoline. didn't we have $4.00 + gas a while back? if so $5 would not be a stretch.
bumpy


Yup, 2008. Paid $4.75 a gallon in Teton Nat'l Park. Had to get enough gas in the tank to make it over the Togwatee Pass (9,000+') to cheaper gasoline.

DelCamper
Explorer
Explorer
That $1 more is a 25% increase. Thats the difference between $1000 and $1250.

Bumpyroad
Explorer
Explorer
just one quick question re $5.00 gasoline. didn't we have $4.00 + gas a while back? if so $5 would not be a stretch.
bumpy

Snowman9000
Explorer
Explorer
I don't see prices going any lower. I don't see $5 a gallon soon either but my crystal ball is in the shop. Nothing I buy RV-wise is going to get less than 10 MPG, and I'm more likely to make sure the next one gets 14-15, minimum.
Currently RV-less but not done yet.

DelCamper
Explorer
Explorer
tommman 58

SONOCO is going out of the refining business and closed two refineries laying off the workforce. That's plenty of pain all the way around. It looks like others will follow. Personally I liked it when US companies residing in and employing US workers make money.

So back to an original question....what is everyones break point with fuel prices? We're buying a 31ft Class C and I'm hoping for 8 MPG with a tailwind. Looks like 100 mile trips if we hit much above $5 / gallon and even $5 is nasty.

DelCamper
Explorer
Explorer
Gents

I was surprised as anyone else when I found out about the change in refining regarding exports and I had a heads up being I grew up next to and was employed in the business. This development is a 180 degree reversal of a long established truth. Cut the guy a break, it's an easy mistake to make. Who would have thought?

Lindsay...we bought a home in Florida so we are there a lot too. We go from Cape Coral Fl and Delaware. I'll pick your brain at a later date about camping in Florida.

tomman58
Explorer
Explorer
Richards "Some economist predict as large turn around with the several trillion $ on the sidelines after the election"
I would think that the economy as it improves and settles in at a lower standard for the middleclass that their will be an influx in more off shore money made for those with their trillions.
As RVers we can only hope that the government maintains an even keel and lets the corporations in oil and others feel the pain that we do.
2015 GMC D/A, CC 4x4/ Z71 ,3.73,IBC SLT+
2018 Jayco 338RETS
2 Trek bikes
Honda EU2000i
It must be time to go, the suns out and I've got a full tank of diesel!
We have a granite fireplace hearth! Love to be a little different.

DelCamper
Explorer
Explorer
The drop in domestic usage has come from people having an insufficient income to maintain their previous usage.

This is not the forum for world events but I welcome you to SHTF, American Dream or Economic Collapse. Look for Kevin or Kevin2. I found out enough over several years there and elsewhere to save my life savings allowing us to have an RV and comfortable life (for now anyway). If you depend on the MSM your not getting the news.

The only thing turning around is the developed world dropping and the developing world rising. This is no mere cyclic event but rather a realignment of global economic power.

LindsayRichards
Explorer
Explorer
Very scary. I am thinking that when the economy turns around, the situation will reverse to it's prior order. The world demand will surely be going up and I have to assume that the domestic will go up also. The drop in domestic usage has pretty much come from imported products. I love seeing the US being an exporter of these products with the jobs being retrained here. Some economist predict as large turn around with the several trillion $ on the sidelines after the election. Unfortunately the drop in domestic usage has largely come from the horrible economy we are living in.

DelCamper
Explorer
Explorer
OK here it is. This change was quite dynamic and within the last two years. Surf the below. To be honest I was surprised to read it a few weeks ago. I put 30 years in the industry. This shows just how far the US economy has collapsed and just how far and fast the developing world is rising.


Sun Oil (SONOCO) announced in Sept of 2011 that it is getting out of the oil refining business.


Gas pains? U.S. diesel, gas exports surpass imports
Dec. 29, 2011 | By Jeff Brady | NPR

For the first time since Harry Truman was president, the country is exporting more petroleum products than it imports. Domestic demand for diesel and gasoline is down while production is up. That's made it difficult for some refineries to stay in business.
To be clear, we're talking about finished petroleum products, not crude oil. The U.S. still imports about half the crude it consumes.
Refineries are touting this new export statistic โ€” after all, gasoline and diesel are manufactured products. They say a boost in exports keeps more manufacturing jobs in the U.S. But one reason exports are increasing is that demand for gas in this country is declining.