RV Fuel Issues & Prices - Post 'Em Here!

[Dick_A]

All other fuel threads will be automatically deleted. 🙂

[DelCamper]

doublenot7

Actually world consumption since 2009 is flat (actually declined by 1 million bbls/day). New World (developing) increased from 4 million bbls/day from 47 million in 2009 to 51 million in Jan 2012. Old World (developed) declined 5 million bbls/day from 42 million in 2009 to 37 million in Jan 2012.

Not only is US consumption down but that Old World figure includes Europe which is having a severe economic contraction.

This price increase is beyond pure supply and demand.

[doublenot7]

Yes, US consumption is down (Just how much of that is thanks to the unemployed?). But world consumption is up. We are not dealing with a US only fuel industry. What the refineries make is not even part of the question, the fact is more supply equals lower prices, again worldwide not just US. Tell yourself you're right all you want but there is no breaking the law of supply and demand.

[DelCamper]

It's $3.95 in Cape Coral Florida

[koda55]

I guess it was my lucky day today. Driving the motorhome back from the tire shop, I found gas for $3.82 a gallon. While going there I saw stations raiseing their prices to $3.92 a gallon. The average here is Jacksonville has been running $3.86. Just the right time as we are getting ready for a 2300 mile trip. Always nice to start out with a full tank at low prices.

[DelCamper]

The power must be generated. How much power is used in a vehicle? Based on 40 gallons of gasoline used per week and engine efficiency of 20% thats 1200 KWH a month of extra generating capacity. Both the grid and generation is near it's limit currently. Throw in 1200 KWH more per month per home (and a couple of shiftworkers) and were way over.

The EPA dooms coal fired in the US and more coal is available for export facilitating development in the developing world which China has overtaken in carbon emissions.

[dmatt]

I'm sure those of us out here in CA remember the rolling black outs in the summer due to electrical consumption here. I'm not sure pure electric vehicles is the answer. Can't imagine what it would be like if the millions of autos out here all required to plug in.

[SRT]

Please don't forget the fact there a bunch of different gasoline blends for many parts of the country. The cost of these special blends also affect the price of Gasoline.

Plus we are now seeing a 6¢ a gallon increase in gasoline overnight. Now the price is $3.79. Inching closer to that $4.00 a gallon up here. Diesel is running $4.13 according to Gas Buddy.

[cekkk]

Electricity is the answer, no doubt about it. EPA's new regs pretty much doom any new coal fired construction, give a brief window of forgiveness to those plants under construction. Administration getting ready to put the kabosh on fracking. Of course, nuclear is out of the question. The administrative process will likely run more than a decade after initial approval, which happens not often. Thank the Lord we can just come home and recharge our batteries with that never ending supply of electricity that comes out of those little doohickies in our walls!

Where's the govt study advising us of the resulting fallout in summer months should, oh, say ten percent of our vehicles become electrically powered? How many heat related deaths would occur due to brownouts and blackouts? Let me guess. More in NYC per week alone than all the provable fossil fuel emissions deaths nationwide in a year.

Those commercials about the choking babies would become real, as would millions of gasping elderly.

Unintended consequences.

[Bumpyroad]

yeah, electric cars are a great product if you use them in Ohio. all of the electricity used to recharge them comes from burning coal.
bumpy

[tomman58]

doublenot7 wrote:
We have too much refining? There are under 150 refineries in the US, not all are in operation/production at the same time anyway and can have production closed down for months at a time. Then you have the issue of just what they are refining and in what amounts. There hasn't been a new refinery built in almost three decades either. More production and more refining are part of the supply issue, more of both will only help.

Oil refineries are closing and moving to China and other countries because we do not use as much as previously and the others pay more for gas. Secondly we export more gas and diesel then ever before. go figure!
The idea that if we had more oil we would have cheaper gas is fallacy.
Ford and others have started to produce far more choices in electric hybrids and electric cars for next year and the engineering demand for that field is increasing dramatically.

[Bumpyroad]

doublenot7 wrote:

What was their explanation of how the Jones Act is interfering? Jones Act requirement for American crews and American vessels only applies to inter US port transportation. This is why foreign vessels are allowed to make port, they are delivering to a US port from a foreign port.

yes, the issue is that they could not move the oil from texas ports to NE US ports. and I DO remember foreign companies/countries offering help in moving out the gulf spill oil and they were forbidden to do so.
bumpy

[DelCamper]

doubleknot7

You have pre economic crash news. US oil demand has dropped by 3 million bbls/day since 2007. Refining capacity has increased in the past few decades (pre 2007) while shutting down refineries due to creep. Creep is defined as de-bottlenecking existing refineries. Bigger pumps here, a unit there and bingo a 200,000 bbl/day refinery is a 300,000 bbl/day refinery; less refineries but more bbls/day. Us Refineries unable to sell their product here now are exporting finished product overseas just to stay open. Yes you heard that correctly. We are importing crude and exporting gasoline and fuel oil.

The refining business is presently so poor with no future in site that Sunoco a pure refining company shut down two of their refineries are are selling their entire refining business. There is barely a break even margin in the refining sector that was very lucrative from the late 1990s until late 2007. Environmental laws crippled the industry so remaining refineries made good profits (hence creep, no sense spending 100 million on a small refinery to meet the new sulfur regulations) and Katrina was a windfall (short lived) for that industry.

That 3 million bbls/day cut in US demand is directly related to the overall state of the economy. The oil demand is the ECG, pulse and overall measure of economic health of the US economy.

[doublenot7]

We have too much refining? There are under 150 refineries in the US, not all are in operation/production at the same time anyway and can have production closed down for months at a time. Then you have the issue of just what they are refining and in what amounts. There hasn't been a new refinery built in almost three decades either. More production and more refining are part of the supply issue, more of both will only help.

[DelCamper]

Well regardless there is too much US Refining capacity at present. Refining is not where the high prices are coming from..

We never got sweet stuff like WTI. We ran nasty sour stuff that came from outside of the US.

[doublenot7]

Bumpyroad wrote:
just heard on the radio a discussion on oil transportation issues and one person mentioned that one of the main problems with not being able to get oil to certain refineries was the "Jones Act". also interfered with the clean up of the gulf.
why hasn't that been mentioned here in the 30 brazillion pages of oil issue comments?
bumpy

What was their explanation of how the Jones Act is interfering? Jones Act requirement for American crews and American vessels only applies to inter US port transportation. This is why foreign vessels are allowed to make port, they are delivering to a US port from a foreign port.

IMHO as one who deals with Jones Act and Maritime law on a daily basis, Jones Act is not blocking any transportation of fuel and did not hamper Gulf clean up at all.