Sway/Reece dual cam issue with a F250

[9one1_]

Ok I just about had it with my Reece Dual cam set up. This is my second trailer with it and I've replaced 4 snap up brackets the last one being their HD version. The cam arm mount bolts stripped out so I had to drill through the entire frame and and run a bolt all the way through. The bars pop so loud that they can be heard three towns away. It doesn't do anything for the sway as I pulled over half way home from the last trip and took them off and it wiggled less then with them on.

My truck is a 2011 F250 with the Powerstroke with 7500 miles. Interesting side bar with the truck- I just picked it up from the dealership after I complained about too much rear squat in the back with any load and especially towing. They put the F350's 4 inch rear blocks on in place of the 2 inch F250 ones then changed out the rear shocks and some other spacers. Truck looks great now, not ass heavy empty (level when measured wheelwell to ground) like before.

My last trip of the year last year is when the HD snap up bracket bent. I ended up bolting them to the frame per the Reece tech suggestion and resetting up the hitch. I again followed the instructions and leveled the trailer with the ball height then the truck with the tilt and chain tension. My first trip this year was Memorial Day weekend and I ended up stopping 100 miles into the trip and it did not feel right. I ended up loosening up the chain by one link. It felt better but still wasn't perfect. A little light reading of my owners manual says that the front measurement should only be returned to 1/2 the unhitched height which is probably why I didn't feel like I was in control.

2nd trip was this past weekend. Same set up as before and it felt the same. The truck steering was fine but the trailer was moving around a lot more then I felt comfortable with especially above say 50mph.

Like I mentioned earlier, I took off the bars 1/2 way home to see what would happen and there really wasn't much change. If anything it swayed less.

I don't have the $2500-3000 for a Hensley or Propride so I'm looking at a Blue Ox SwayPro or maybe an Equalizer. I just don't know what to do.

The trailer is a Jayco 29QBH 33.3 feet long which has GVWR of 9250lbs and a dry tongue weight of 920lbs. When I weighed the trailer last it was 7840lbs. I'm guessing the tongue weight with a full load of propane was at least 980lbs. I think I should have had plenty of tongue weight and I'm running 1200lbs bars.

The other variable with the trailer is that it has an under slung coupler which is why Reece said to bolt the snap up bracket for added support.

Here is a picture from the Memorial Day trip after I took out a link of tension.



Ok...HELP!!

[NWKomfort350]

Your running 1200 pound bars with 1200 pound tongue weight. I have an older f350 and have 1200 pound trunnion bars and 1040 pound hitch weight and im on the minimum reese allows 5 chain links. I know nothing about round bar set up so I dont know if it matters if bars are level or parallel to frame or an6thig the trunnion bar setup never brought either up. I also have my head tilted with first 4 teeth showing. As manual stated how many inches ends of bars need to be off ground im on 3rd setup and going great best towing experience I've had..
Hope you get it working. Bad towing experiences are not a good start to a trip, or a good finish!

[9one1_]

Campin LI wrote:
Your thread reminds me of what happened to me about 2-3 years ago.

I tow a Jayco 32BHDS with a Ford Excursion. The first hitch I had was a Reese dual cam with round bars, just like yours. I bent snap brackets and even a cam arm. Tore the cam arm support bolts out of the frame just like you did. Adjustments like crazy never worked. I worked with a Reese tech and I adjusted exactly as he recommended each time. Reese was great and replaced each part every time it got bent. Eventually they replaced the entire system because it was all bent up with a newer version that required holes in a different spot for the cam support bracket. Even that never worked. I threw in the towel and ended up switching to an Equal-I-zer hitch and it has towed great since the change, with only the initial setup which didn't take long at all. I did add a nut and bolt through the center of the L-bracket brackets to keep them from sliding back on the frame during real tight turns.

I think the round bar style hitch coupled up with a heavy tongue weight and bottom mounted trailer coupler is just a bad match - but that is just my opinion which is based on nothing but my experience. To me it looks like you should be done with that hitch at this point and move on so you can enjoy your vacations.

Agreed!!! 6 hours I worked on it today between the adjustments and test rides. It seems ok but I won't know for sure until the next trip which isn't until the end of the month. That will be it, if its not better its going on Craig's List and trying your hitch or the Blue Ox.

[9one1_]

Ron Gratz wrote:

9one1! wrote:
---The bars pop so loud that they can be heard three towns away. It doesn't do anything for the sway as I pulled over half way home from the last trip and took them off and it wiggled less then with them on.

After you reduced the amount of rearward tilt and decreased the number of links under tension,
did you notice any difference in the noise or any difference in the sway stability?

Did you ever try putting Vaseline on the cams to reduce the noise?

Ron

I did Ron as the Reece tech suggested it with the1200lb bars. I think it was actually worse stability wise and really didn't stop the banging at all.

[Campin_LI]

Your thread reminds me of what happened to me about 2-3 years ago.

I tow a Jayco 32BHDS with a Ford Excursion. The first hitch I had was a Reese dual cam with round bars, just like yours. I bent snap brackets and even a cam arm. Tore the cam arm support bolts out of the frame just like you did. Adjustments like crazy never worked. I worked with a Reese tech and I adjusted exactly as he recommended each time. Reese was great and replaced each part every time it got bent. Eventually they replaced the entire system because it was all bent up with a newer version that required holes in a different spot for the cam support bracket. Even that never worked. I threw in the towel and ended up switching to an Equal-I-zer hitch and it has towed great since the change, with only the initial setup which didn't take long at all. I did add a nut and bolt through the center of the L-bracket brackets to keep them from sliding back on the frame during real tight turns.

I think the round bar style hitch coupled up with a heavy tongue weight and bottom mounted trailer coupler is just a bad match - but that is just my opinion which is based on nothing but my experience. To me it looks like you should be done with that hitch at this point and move on so you can enjoy your vacations.

[Ron_Gratz]

9one1! wrote:
---The bars pop so loud that they can be heard three towns away. It doesn't do anything for the sway as I pulled over half way home from the last trip and took them off and it wiggled less then with them on.

After you reduced the amount of rearward tilt and decreased the number of links under tension,
did you notice any difference in the noise or any difference in the sway stability?

Did you ever try putting Vaseline on the cams to reduce the noise?

Ron

[9one1_]

BarneyS wrote:
If it were my trailer, I would put the head tilt back where it was, adjust the chain links to give the amount of WD necessary, and CHECK CAREFULLY that the V of the WD bars is centered EXACTLY on the cam lobe.

The angle of the cam arms does not matter as they do not move and are fixed at the front where they attach to the A frame. The cam itself is round so the bars can slide on it no matter what the angle of the arms is. All the cam/chains do is hold up the WD bars. Actually, the angle you had first is good as it gives lots of clearance between the cam arms and the WD bars. Many have problems in this area which leads to bent/broken arms or hitch heads.
In the second picture, the pressure on the WD bars will increase greatly as you turn. The inside bar slides on the cam and could put too much strain on the snap up brackets.

Also, with the Dual Cam, it is not critical that the chains be exactly vertical. That is a requirement on the normal hitches because the chains swing back and forth when turning but not so with the Dual Cam. The chains do not move at all. All they do is hold up the cam.

From looking at your pictures, I suspect that you do not have the cams exactly centered on the V of the bars. If they are not, then they will constantly fight with each other to keep the trailer centered and you will have lots of sway like motions.

Take a look at the hitch setup thread stuck at the top of this forum for information on the Dual Cam setup and what I was just talking about. It has lots of good pictures by JBarca to help explain.
Barney

I have read and reread that post. Agreed there is a lot of good info. My initial set up it was extremely difficult to get the bars off the cam lobes even with the tongue jacked all the way up. I would have to use a small sledge on the bars to get the off. Currently it is much easier, I raise the tongue with the jack a bit then I can release the snap up brackets by hand and the bars come right off.

[9one1_]

Not sure if I mentioned that the trailer was 20 inches from the ground to the bottom of the frame both front and back.

[9one1_]

Per the scale:
Hitch weight is 1200lbs
Truck weight is 7600lbs
Truck hitched is 8800lbs
Trailer weight is 8420lbs (1/2 +or- load of water)
Truck and trailer is 16020lbs

Looks like I'm at 15% tongue weight with the bed of my truck empty.

When I got back from the scales I noticed this. When I remeasured after getting home the measurements were off so I flipped the washer things.



I flipped them and it now looks like this and the measure menus were restored. I also loosened up the the cam arms and recentered them on the lobe. Then drove slowly making turns per the instructions. Pulled the truck and trailer straight, rechecked them and tightened everything back up.



This is how it looks now. 6 chain lengths under tension. The bars are not quite level and not sure if that is going to be an issue.




It is breezy here with a steady 10 mph wind with gusts in the low 20's. Towing on the secondary roads seems fine. Out in the highway I felt the wind moving me around much like before. The trailer will move but comes back to center as I'm watching it in the side view mirror. I guess this is the best I can expect?!?

[BarneyS]

If it were my trailer, I would put the head tilt back where it was, adjust the chain links to give the amount of WD necessary, and CHECK CAREFULLY that the V of the WD bars is centered EXACTLY on the cam lobe.

The angle of the cam arms does not matter as they do not move and are fixed at the front where they attach to the A frame. The cam itself is round so the bars can slide on it no matter what the angle of the arms is. All the cam/chains do is hold up the WD bars. Actually, the angle you had first is good as it gives lots of clearance between the cam arms and the WD bars. Many have problems in this area which leads to bent/broken arms or hitch heads.
In the second picture, the pressure on the WD bars will increase greatly as you turn. The inside bar slides on the cam and could put too much strain on the snap up brackets.

Also, with the Dual Cam, it is not critical that the chains be exactly vertical. That is a requirement on the normal hitches because the chains swing back and forth when turning but not so with the Dual Cam. The chains do not move at all. All they do is hold up the cam.

From looking at your pictures, I suspect that you do not have the cams exactly centered on the V of the bars. If they are not, then they will constantly fight with each other to keep the trailer centered and you will have lots of sway like motions.

Take a look at the hitch setup thread stuck at the top of this forum for information on the Dual Cam setup and what I was just talking about. It has lots of good pictures by JBarca to help explain.
Barney

[9one1_]

Adjusted again per the suggestions.



From a distance...



Measurements

Driver side front empty / with trailer / with bars connected 39 3/4 - 40 1/2 - 40
Driver side rear empty / with trailer / with bars connected 42 1/2 - 40 1/2 - 40 3/4

Passenger side front empty / with trailer / with bars connected 39 3/4 - 40 1/4 - 40
Passenger side front empty / with trailer / with bars connected 41 1/4 - 40 1/8 - 40 3/4

Heading out for weights now.

[F350R]

I agree with Ron your support arms are at a very steep angle I think this is causing part of your problem in getting it set up, you're pulling almost straight into the support arm and not into the spring arm.
I had the dual cam setup for a couple of years but kept twisting the support arm only on the drivers side. My dual cam used the trunnion style bars with a different style hitch head of course. Trunnion bars mount up a little higher on the hitch head and would take some of the angle out of the support bars. Reese could never figure out why mine kept bending so I shelved the system and went with Reese's Pro system, since then I have never had another problem. The Pro system uses a straight solid bar that rides in a saddle that is lined with brake material similar to the Equalizer system.

[Ron_Gratz]

The photo shows your cam support arms are at a very steep angle.

It also looks as though you have the hexagonal washer set to give maximum rearward tilt of the ball mount.
And, it looks as though you have 8 or 9 chain links under tension.

I think you would have fewer problems if you decreased the amount of rearward tilt to make the WD bars closer to horizontal.
That should help with some of your problems. And it will make your chains a little closer to vertical.

Then decrease the number of chain links under tension to get proper weight distribution.
I believe the instructions say you can have as few as 5 links under tension.

You should be able to raise the WD bars a considerable distance without creating contact between bars and cam arms.

Figure 14 on Page 8 of these instructions shows a good WD bar angle.

Ron

[9one1_]

netaq wrote:
This is interesting.....we have similar trucks, trailers, and hitches but I am not having any sway issues at all. I did spend a couple hours adjusting the hitch in a parking lot after the dealer installed it. The dealer had it riding too nose high without enough tension in the bars. I have 1200# ones like you. Getting the hitch angle was trial and error with a measuring tape.

I have spent countless hours with a measuring tape and a level working on this hitch truck combo and I'm just not getting it right. Funny thing is I set my buddies up when he switched from a Titan to a Chevy 2500HD and is trailer is similarly sized and weight. I don't know.

[netaq]

This is interesting.....we have similar trucks, trailers, and hitches but I am not having any sway issues at all. I did spend a couple hours adjusting the hitch in a parking lot after the dealer installed it. The dealer had it riding too nose high without enough tension in the bars. I have 1200# ones like you. Getting the hitch angle was trial and error with a measuring tape.

[9one1_]

Ron Gratz wrote:

9one1! wrote:
The other variable with the trailer is that it has an under slung coupler which is why Reece said to bolt the snap up bracket for added support.

With an under-mount coupler, I'm guessing your cam support arms are at a very steep angle.
If so, the friction of the cam acting against a very steep bar slope can exert unusually high forces on the lift chain.

Is it possible for you to raise the rear ends of the WD bars by reducing the amount of ball mount tilt and decreasing the number of chain links under tension?
This would position the bars at a less-steep angle and might eliminate some of your problems.

If you have a close up photo of a bar, cam, and lift chain when the TT is attached to the TV, that would give us a better basis for providing comments.



Ron

This was my original set up. There is only 1 loose chain link. I was able to extend the cam arm to make the chain a little more straight then the picture shows.