Taking Personal Responsibility to new lows.

[westernrvparkow]

Recent review of Lazy Days RV Park in Florida has the park getting a 1 out of 10. Reason, the reviewer broke their ankle.
Did they break their ankle because the park had carelessly left equipment laying around? No. Was the park at fault because a walkway, stairs or piece of recreational equipment failed? No. Was the floors in the office, store, laundry or bathhouses wet and slick from a spill? Nyet.
The failure of the park...Leaves on a hill BEHIND the reviewer's RV. The reviewer gave no reason why they felt they had to be climbing on the hill, but they apparently felt it was the park's fault that either the hill was there or that their trees drop leaves. And people wonder why there has to be signs everywhere warning people if you do something stupid you might get hurt.

[jplante4]

Well, it's been a full 2 days since anyone has posted and I continue to get complaints on this so.... get ready for it...

CLOSED

[fj12ryder]

Well, IMO the result of making everything totally safe from the general public, and kids, results in things like having the Mona Lisa behind plexiglass. Believe it or not, in Europe you can walk right up to objets d'art, and get close and personal. The Venus de Milo is protected by...get this...a velvet rope.

In all fairness this didn't happen at an art museum, but at a community center with art on display. And it happened while a wedding reception was being held. So there are mitigating circumstances.

[jplante4]

Bobbo wrote:
There was a piece on the news this week about a woman who took her 5 year old son to an art museum.

Saw this one. In this case I think the museum director or whoever was responsible for decorating for this particular event obviously never had kids. If he/she had, they would have known better than to leave an expensive bust within toddler reaching range, which I believe the standard is 7 feet from anything they can stand on.

Not to exonerate the inattentive parents, but I think the museum gets some of the blame here. Sending the parent a bill is just asking for lawyers to get involved. I wouldn't be surprised if the museum ended up paying these parents multiple millions of dollars for "pain and suffering".

[Bobbo]

There was a piece on the news this week about a woman who took her 5 year old son to an art museum. Security video shows the little hooligan running wild through the museum with no supervision, then trying to climb on a bust sitting on a pedestal. Fortunately, when the bust fell over, it didn't hurt or kill the little terror. The mother was aghast when she later got a bill from the museum's insurance company for over $130,000 for the price of the bust. Her comment? She never thought a place that WELCOMES children would bill her.

It is the mother, in this instance, who needs corporal punishment. Her child could easily have been killed if the bust had just happened to fall on the child's head. I am sure that even though the bust was secured to the pedestal, it would still have been the museum's fault.

[mr__ed]

Isn't the term "Common Sense" an oxymoron, since it isn't so common?

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

seagrace wrote:

How about this, you people that support this form of abuse, point out some studies that show that spanking is a beneficial and positive form of discipline, I'm always interested in learning more. p.s.- anecdotal evidence, i.e. "I was spanked and I turned out okay" is invalid.

You asked so here you go. Learn away!

[jfkmk]

Wow, this thread really jumped all over the place. Surprised gun control didn't raise its ugly head.

I've read the review, and they do seem to be blaming the campground. Too bad. It's always everyone else's fault. How about this: you take personal responsibility for your own actions. You see a hazard and avoid it. The hill wasn't a walking path the campground should maintain.

Several years ago, I was at the NYC auto show. I was looking at a gorgeous convertible...forget what brand, but it was expensive. Looking at all the warning stickers ruining an otherwise beautiful interior I thought it's too bad we have to live with this just because people don't use common sense and blame everyone else for their own actions.

[am1958]

Grace, dear...

I have an 11 year old adopted daughter that has never had a hand raised to her. Why, because she doesn't need it. Her personality is such that the thought that she has disappointed either of her parents is enough to send her to tears.

I have two grown sons who were not so motivated and, as boys do, would push the envelope to the point that corporal punishment was in order. Usually the threat was enough but - unlike in your utopia - in order to fully understand the consequences of such punishment it is necessary to have first experienced it. So, on occasion, when I deemed fit they would experience some transient pain in order to address a behavioral issue that was not being rectified in any other way. After a taste or two though the question "would you like me to spank you" generally ended the bad behavior.

Both boys are successful, well balanced, loving fathers.

You can quote all the touchy feely poppycock you like but it doesn't change the fact that in some cases corporal punishment is an effective tool in the parenting toolbox. Look how many "Turn-about Ranches" and bootcamps we have for our unruly children nowadays - things that were unheard of in my youth. It is purely coincidental I'm sure that the decrease in corporal punishment has so mirrored the increase in these institutions.

But you keep petting your unicorns and watching the rainbows while the rest of us provide the future with respectful and caring adults that understand that not all people respond to the same stimuli.

[seagrace]

am1958 wrote:

seagrace wrote:

From the APA:
"Many studies have shown that physical punishment — including spanking, hitting and other means of causing pain — can lead to increased aggression, antisocial behavior, physical injury and mental health problems for children. Americans’ acceptance of physical punishment has declined since the 1960s, yet surveys show that two-thirds of Americans still approve of parents spanking their kids."

Grace... You'll note the wording of said piece. It states "can" where I have bolded it. "Can" does not equal "Will", period. There are a myriad of other factors that result in the adult you claim the simple application of a small amount of pain produces. Don't simplify an issue in order to try to make your point of view valid - you are lying to yourself more than to others.

I'm not simplifying anything. It's y'all that prefer to teach using pain and fear that are simplifying and rationalizing. I'm showing you where you are wrong and you still deny it. No wonder this country is in such a mess.

Twisting the meaning of the quote sure helps your conscious, though, eh? You don't have to take my word for it was the point. If you would just research it yourself, or actually read the article, or maybe some of the studies, it might help. For example, Did you know that 60 countries have banned spanking children? Numerous studies have been conducted on this issue, and many experts today advise against it.

Here is a link to the article I quoted: http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

But hey, don't take my word for it. How about this, you people that support this form of abuse, point out some studies that show that spanking is a beneficial and positive form of discipline, I'm always interested in learning more. p.s.- anecdotal evidence, i.e. "I was spanked and I turned out okay" is invalid.

[am1958]

seagrace wrote:

From the APA:
"Many studies have shown that physical punishment — including spanking, hitting and other means of causing pain — can lead to increased aggression, antisocial behavior, physical injury and mental health problems for children. Americans’ acceptance of physical punishment has declined since the 1960s, yet surveys show that two-thirds of Americans still approve of parents spanking their kids."

Grace... You'll note the wording of said piece. It states "can" where I have bolded it. "Can" does not equal "Will", period. There are a myriad of other factors that result in the adult you claim the simple application of a small amount of pain produces. Don't simplify an issue in order to try to make your point of view valid - you are lying to yourself more than to others.

[Bobbo]

Ethan Couch, The Affluenza Teen, comes to mind.

[jplante4]

Lantley wrote:
THere are parents that care and parents that don't care.
Spanking kids has nothing to do with those who care and those who don't.
I received my share of spanking because my parents cared.

And I know several people whose parents never laid a hand on them that are damaged beyond repair from emotional abuse and neglect.

[Lantley]

seagrace wrote:

jplante4 wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:
So had the reviewer experienced more corporal punishment growing up, they would have realized the incident could have been their own fault, and therefore written a more positive review?

That's quite the condensation of several pages of comments. I believe where this went was if the reviewer had gotten a swift smack on the butt instead of being told they're special, they would have known the difference between right and wrong, would have known that they made a mistake, and there would have been no review at all.

Look at some of the most recurrent themes in this forum - camping etiquette, blocking fuel pumps, picking up after pets. At the bottom of these threads is a group of people who never learn how to behave in polite society. These are people who got away with this type of behavior as kids with no real repercussions.

I certainly agree with this assessment. However, there are (IMHO better) methods for teaching right and wrong than beating it into someone.

You wonder why so many people resort to violence to resolve issues - ex: Road Rage? They are taught that violence is an acceptable solution by parents that "spank" them and they are simply putting that "life lesson" to use.

Not beating your children as discipline does not equal bad parenting. In fact, I would and am, arguing that a non-violent approach is BETTER parenting. It requires parents to exhibit discipline themselves, and find creative and productive approaches to parenting.

Bad parenting comes from parents that don't care, and that is carried on through generations.

THere are parents that care and parents that don't care.
Spanking kids has nothing to do with those who care and those who don't.
I received my share of spanking because my parents cared.

[seagrace]

Bobbo wrote:

seagrace wrote:
"Spanking done with vengeance or spite is not discipline. Spanking done out of love, while perhaps more painful to the parent, is not abuse"

wrong. Spanking teaches a child that if you want to force someone to comply to your will, just hit them.

You may think that because you are a mature adult, you can administer this discipline without being angry, but that is a ridiculous assertion. You spank because you are angry that your child is misbehaving. That is all. Own it.

This attitude is a very large part of why today's society takes no responsibility for whatever they do. Growing up, I learned, shall we say, "instant tactile feedback." Of my 5 kids, 2 of them required "instant tactile feedback," but the other 3 did not. The ones who needed it got it. Neither of them grew up thinking it was OK to hit other people. They all, also, take responsibility when they do something wrong. Standing in the corner, writing lines, losing TV for the night, just don't carry the immediate repercussion that is needed for a child to learn.

You could not be more wrong. Cute euphemisms like this "instant tactile feedback." make you feel better about it though, right?

From the APA:
"Many studies have shown that physical punishment — including spanking, hitting and other means of causing pain — can lead to increased aggression, antisocial behavior, physical injury and mental health problems for children. Americans’ acceptance of physical punishment has declined since the 1960s, yet surveys show that two-thirds of Americans still approve of parents spanking their kids."