WD and tongue weight. Please check #'s

[mojoroo]

I did a weight check at the scale today. It is a TT partially loaded. No perishables, bikes(bike rack in back of TT) or grill. It is a Hearland Trail Runner/Northtrail edition(aluminum frame and fiberglass) 30USBH. WD Equalizer 4 1400/14000#. Truck 04' 2500HD
How does it look?

Hitched with W/D:

TV Front: 3320#

TV Back: 4180#

RV axle: 7400#

Total: 14900#

Hitched NO W/D

Front TV: 3000#

Back TV: 4620#

RV axle: 7280#

Total: 14900#


Trailer only, tongue jack down and WD laying on scale by tongue jack

Front Axle : 00#

Tongue jack: 1380#

RV axle: 7200#

Total: 8580#


Truck alone.

Front Axle: 3620#

Rear Axle: 2820#

Total: 6440


For the record I will notify the Mods about this thread since I did have one earlier asking about weighing procedures and I did post weights. But they were all wrong due to error.

[TomG2]

"Adding a couple hundred pounds would be moving farther from reality.
If anything, the OP should subtract the 200#."

I got lost in the shuffle between on the scales, and off the scales, in the storm, and out. As I suggested, a complete reweighing with one visit to the scales would be best.

[TomG2]

"I'm guessing that Chevrolet still does think 100% FALR still is necessary for the 2004 2500HD."

Your guess is as good as mine. I do not expect GM to go back and publish revised owner's manuals for nine year old vehicles, so we will never know for sure. The changes noted would hardly be enough to justify a change from 100% to 0%, but I am just guessing too.

[Ron_Gratz]

The other day, you thought that the "truck only" weight was without a driver. If so, you may want to add a couple hundred pounds to the front axle weight number, or4 better yet, reweigh everything.---

If the OP adds 200# to the front axle load value of 3620#, that would give a removed weight of 3820-3000 = 820#.
It also would give an indicated tongue weight of 980#.
And, the calculated FALR would be (3320-3000)/820 = 39% , which is not very close to one hundred percent restoration.

Adding a couple hundred pounds would be moving farther from reality.
If anything, the OP should subtract the 200#.

As stated earlier, if a weight of 120# is subtracted from the "truck only" front axle load, the significant numerical inconsistencies will be eliminated.

I'm guessing that Chevrolet still does think 100% FALR still is necessary for the 2004 2500HD.
When they announced in 2010 that the 2500HD trucks no longer would need weight distribution, they also were announcing stronger frames and suspension systems.
I doubt the recently incorporated WD specs retroactively apply to the 2004 models.

Ron

[TomG2]

The other day, you thought that the "truck only" weight was without a driver. If so, you may want to add a couple hundred pounds to the front axle weight number, or4 better yet, reweigh everything. If so, you are very close to one hundred percent restoration which is what GM used to think necessary. They have recently changed their corporate mind.

[Pauljdav]

I'm not sure if you already are using the measuring method, but I highly recommend it. Measure your TV fender distance to the ground un hitched. Measure it again hitched. Adjust your hitch until the distance is the same as unhitched.

Then go weigh it.

Paul

[Ron_Gratz]

mojoroo wrote:
Until then it appears I should try to transfer more weight to the front via WD?

Since we're not sure what the "truck only" front axle load was when you made your last set of weighings --
it appears your front axle could be "light" by 180# to 300#.

Since Chevrolet specifies, for your 2500HD, the front axle should be returned to its unhitched load,
IMO you should transfer more load to the front via WD.

If you weigh the rig again, you should try to make all three weighings during the same visit to the scales and ensure that the loading of the TV and TT remains the same for all weighings.

Ron

[mojoroo]

OK I will need to read your post a few times, I am a bit slow with math along with new terminology. Ron you are very well versed and helpful in regards to WD discussion, thank you!!

Yes the weight of the TV was from the day before and I am sure I burned 6-7 gallons of gas inbetween the truck only weight and the TV+TT combo weights, I also had case of soda removed.


I will try to digest the numbers a bit more.

Until then it appears I should try to transfer more weight to the front via WD?

[Ron_Gratz]

mojoroo wrote:
How does it look?

First, let's look at the Gross Vehicle Weights.
The GVW for the truck is 3620+2820 = 6440#.
The GVW for the trailer is 1380+7200 = 8580#.
The GCW for truck plus trailer is 6440+8580 = 15020#.

This brings us to the first weight discrepancy --
the GCWs measured for the TV+TT with and without WD applied are 14900# and 14900#.
There's a difference of 120# between the GCW for TV and TT measured separately and for TV and TT on the scales at the same time.

Since the "truck only" axle loads are identical to the loads which you reported in the other thread on 6/1, I need to ask --
did you re-weigh the truck alone today or are you using the weights which were obtained yesterday?
If you are using the weights from yesterday, the weight today probably is 120# less, and that will affect the interpretation of the data.

For example, using today's numbers shows the front axle load decreased by 620# when TW was applied with no WD.
If the tongue weight really is around 1380#, the load removed from the front axle would have been closer to 500#.
If the "truck only" front axle load is reduced to 3500#, the CGW discrepancy will be eliminated, the load removed from the front axle will be a more realistic 500#, and the tongue weight estimated from TV+TT with no WD minus truck alone is 7620-6320 = 1300# which is closer to the 1380# measured with the tongue jack on the second pad.

Regarding "tongue weight" -- the load measured with the tongue jack on a scale pad is not the same as the load imposed on the ball by the coupler.
The difference in load is due to the difference in distance from TT axles to center of tongue jack versus the distance from TT axles to center ball coupler socket.
For the Northtrail 30USBH, the load measured under the tongue jack will be about 4% greater than the load measured under the ball coupler.
IOW, the actual tongue weight for your loaded TT was about 0.96*1380 = about 1320#.

Assuming the correct "truck only" front axle load was 3500#, TW removed 500# from the front axle and application of WD caused 320# to be restored to the front.
That's a Front Axle Load Restoration of 320/500 = 64%.

For your 2004 2500HD, Chevrolet specifies a FALR of 100%. IOW, the front axle load should be returned to the unhitched value.
Today, Chevrolet says that weight distribution is "optional" for the 2500 HD.
It's up to you to decide how much load distribution you want for your truck.

Ron

[mojoroo]

Thank you for the encouragement!! Learning a lot, but the more I learn the more I worry.
My first concern is I am paranoid about overloading the receiver. Not sure of my tongue is 1060# or 1180#. My OEM receiver is 1000# no WD or 1500# WD.

Cant recall what the L brackets are at but I do know I have 6 washer installed. If I add one, can any washer be used that fits???

[TomG2]

I will let someone else do a complete analysis, but it appears that you are only achieving a little over 50% front axle load restoration. You should be able to attain 100% with your Equalizer hitch. Download the instructions or read them as posted on the forum. Good job getting some good scale weights, although it still looks like there are about 100 pounds floating around somewhere.
8,580 + 6,440 = 15,020, not the 14,900 total combined weight shown.