What rules for Canadian pickup towing utility trailer in US?

[Commutator]

I can't find where to get answers to this. In Ontario, Canada all pickup trucks are registered as commercial vehicles. No choice. I'd like to use my pickup (without the truck camper loaded) to tow one or two cars (plated in my name) in my enclosed utility trailer to Florida for the winter. While in Ontario I am exempted from log books, inspection records, and most other commercial rules as I meet some specific "personal use" parameters in Ontario law. I doubt those personal use exemptions are relevant in the US. Since my truck is registered as commercial I'll look just like a hot shot driver going down the road.

I understand that US residents choose whether to license their trucks as personal or commercial. (How logical!!) And they put those "not for hire" signs out to clarify. My issue is how can I legally go through the US with my "commercial" pickup truck and utility trailer? If I have to do weigh scales, logs, etc. and risk fines/delays for my newbie mistakes, it is probably not worth it.

Anyone know where I can get this information?

Thanks,
Fred

[shum02]

Commutator wrote:


In case you weren't aware, in 2011 they modified the Class G definition (again) to remove the need for a restricted 'A' for RV 5th wheels over 4600kg if the total rig is under 11000kg. That removed the need for a lot of the FW drivers to have the restricted 'A'. Not for a big loaded toy hauler though!

My understanding is BC REALLY enforces the Restricted A. If you're towing heavy you better have it!

[Commutator]

Haha. You're preaching to the choir on the MTO. Exactly why I said I wouldn't act on what they told me without seeing it in print. Ask 3 MTO people and you'll get 3 different answers. Everything I have asserted as fact, I've read in the Act and Regulations. The conjecture I've identified as such, including having been told by MTO guy.

Andy is the first guy I go to for hitch advice, definitely. He probably even knows the rules, but I'd still read them for myself. Note that the requirement to include the trailer weight only kicks in if the actual weight on the road of the axles exceeds 2800kg. (Reg 628 1.(1)) That's a pretty big Airstream. AND, there may well be an exemption somewhere for RV trailers too, I just haven't seen one so I make no assertion either way.

In case you weren't aware, in 2011 they modified the Class G definition (again) to remove the need for a restricted 'A' for RV 5th wheels over 4600kg if the total rig is under 11000kg. That removed the need for a lot of the FW drivers to have the restricted 'A'. Not for a big loaded toy hauler though!

The rules are a mess here and constantly changing! Exactly why I decided to investigate the US rules so I can go moderately well-informed.

[shum02]

Commutator wrote:
shum02, I'm familiar with the reciprocity on drivers licenses. That's no problem. My truck is in fact commercial though due to its weight. Look at section 16 of the Act if you want to read the definition. It kicks in at 4500kg.

Ontario rules have changed recently. I researched them carefully for me since a number of my friends were pulled over and fined. So my 15yr old approach of "ignorance is bliss" was showing its weakness! It was expensive research as my truck plate costs me $650/yr now because my total weight is over 10K kg. (Yes, I'm legal with a class G license as my trailer is under 4600kg.) I was already doing most of the annual inspection work every spring anyway so the added cost for the stickers wasn't much for me.

I was told by one MTO person that RGW must now include both the truck & trailer whether it's an RV trailer or not. I don't know if that's correct or if affects you anyway but I'll toss it out there. I personally would want to see that in print before I paid to register the weight of an RV trailer with my truck.

...Fred

Did you "see them in court"?

MTO Ontario

Most MTO regular officers are not versed re non-comercial drivers. Take them to court.

I have a RGW(paid) of 4000kgs, regardless of what the trucks GVWR placard says and can have a combined GCVWR not RGW(paid) of 11000kgs(23000lbs) without getting the restricted A - if you're over that all bets off. This was brought about by the RV Ass of Ontario, can't sell all these big big rigs to guys driving 150/1500 series trucks and keep them legal or the big buses which regularly well exceed 11000kgs driven by old guys with G lic.

See me in court. EVERY "half ton truck" in ON pulling a decent size RV would be in violation, heck most small "utes" towing single axle RV's set up by Uncle Andy out at CanAm in London ARE in violation.

We are RV'ers, NOT commercial drivers, this is my daily driver.

Class G - MTO definition

Class G — any motor vehicle not exceeding 11,000 kilograms
gross weight or registered gross weight and any combination of
a motor vehicle not exceeding a total gross weight or registered
gross weight of 11,000 kilograms and towed vehicles where the
towed vehicles do not exceed a total gross weight of 4,600
kilograms

[Commutator]

shum02, I'm familiar with the reciprocity on drivers licenses. That's no problem. My truck is in fact commercial though due to its weight. Look at section 16 of the Act if you want to read the definition. It kicks in at 4500kg.

Ontario rules have changed recently. I researched them carefully for me since a number of my friends were pulled over and fined. So my 15yr old approach of "ignorance is bliss" was showing its weakness! It was expensive research as my truck plate costs me $650/yr now because my total weight is over 10K kg. (Yes, I'm legal with a class G license as my trailer is under 4600kg.) I was already doing most of the annual inspection work every spring anyway so the added cost for the stickers wasn't much for me.

I was told by one MTO person that RGW must now include both the truck & trailer whether it's an RV trailer or not. I don't know if that's correct or if affects you anyway but I'll toss it out there. I personally would want to see that in print before I paid to register the weight of an RV trailer with my truck.

...Fred

[srt20]

No reason to stop. No reason for logs. Drive through as you would if you were in a car.
Only reason you would get stopped ( other than speeding etc) is if that cop is having a really bad day.

I've been all over, including Ontario, with similar and never been stopped.

[shum02]

Commutator wrote:
I can't find where to get answers to this. In Ontario, Canada all pickup trucks are registered as commercial vehicles. No choice. I'd like to use my pickup (without the truck camper loaded) to tow one or two cars (plated in my name) in my enclosed utility trailer to Florida for the winter. While in Ontario I am exempted from log books, inspection records, and most other commercial rules as I meet some specific "personal use" parameters in Ontario law. I doubt those personal use exemptions are relevant in the US. Since my truck is registered as commercial I'll look just like a hot shot driver going down the road.

I understand that US residents choose whether to license their trucks as personal or commercial. (How logical!!) And they put those "not for hire" signs out to clarify. My issue is how can I legally go through the US with my "commercial" pickup truck and utility trailer? If I have to do weigh scales, logs, etc. and risk fines/delays for my newbie mistakes, it is probably not worth it.

Anyone know where I can get this information?

Thanks,
Fred

Ontario has many reciprocating agreements with US States and other Provinces regarding licencing. Give the MTO a call and ask them.

BTW your truck is not registered as commercial, but you do get the "truck" plates when you step over the 6000lbs/3000kgs GVWR and yearly inspections when you register for over 4000kgs(I keep mine at 4k kgs to avoid that hassle). With a G licence you are allowed up to 24000lbs GCVWR after that you are really suppose to get a Restricted A CDL, but really unless you're pulling for money no one gives a hoot.

[Community Alumni]

I'm willing to bet that most of us haven't a clue what a commercial tag looks like from another province or state other than our own.

[johntank]

beemerphile1 wrote:
You are not a commercial operation and have no reason to stop, drive on by.

I agree as you don't have a logo on your truck or trailer, so how would they know if you are running a commercial tag?

If you do stop at a weight station pull to the side and park where they can see your rig from inside the scale house, then you can go inside and ask your questions. JMHO

[Wadcutter]

Commutator wrote:
First, thanks to all for your input. I didn't realize that some states also require pickups to be plated as commercial so it's not just some Canadian vehicles with this issue.

Second, some people seem to base their responses on how my rig looks in my sig picture. I've been driving through the US for years like that and not worried about it at all. I look like an RV and figured they would not care. I also know I'm (barely) OK on my weight limits. There won't be any resemblance to an RV when towing with an empty pickup box pulling that trailer.

Wadcutter, thanks very much for the insight. There's no commercial aspect to what I'm doing except for my truck plates. I'm not hauling for sale, rental, possible prize money, nothing like that. Just for the novelty of driving around Florida with a Model T and our friends there.

This brings a little clarity, which is obvious, but I'd not seen. Yes, I know there is reciprocity re my drivers license and since I can legally drive my rig here without a CDL that will be true elsewhere in N America too. Similarly my valid vehicle registration will be respected. But what we are really talking about are the rules of operation on the road. Those have to be followed based on the jurisdiction you're in. I'll poke away at it a bit more but this has been a big help.

The only reason I suggest stopping is not because you need to stop but it might save you some hassle down the road. Anyone seeing your truck/trailer set up doesn't know you're hauling your personal vehicles. You look like a lot of commercial vehicles on the road. Having foreign registration also brings attention. You might get stopped driving by a scales just because your vehicle looks like it could be commercial. Once your cargo is determined to be just your personal 'fun' vehicles you'll be on your way but it's just the hassle of being stopped. Most likely just driving by the scale houses wouldn't get you stopped but it's possible. You don't need to stop, it's just a pre-emptive measure on your part to avoid being stopped.
As far as the rest of your travels just go about as you would pulling a camper or no camper. Enjoy your travels.

[ktmrfs]

it varies by state, but in many states the weight scales say commercial vehicles over XXX lbs. often 20K lbs, so in that case you should be able to just pass by.

Otherwise, I'd suggest at least pulling into at least the first open station you see in a state, it will avoid the possibility of being pulled over as you pass the station by a patrol car looking for trucks bypassing the scale.

[Commutator]

Weigh Scales With my camper on the truck and the trailer in tow I've been driving by them on both sides of the border unmolested for years. I'm undecided about pulling in to them with the empty truck and the trailer in tow. I will probably get some "not for hire" magnetic signs and take my chances.

FYI, here in Ontario everyone with commercial plates and weight over 10,000 lbs is legally required to pull in, including pickups. I spoke with an enforcement officer at a social event and was told to stay out. They don't want you in there and you'll just annoy them, which has the potential to end badly. BTW, they know most truck camper rigs are overweight on the rear axle (not me!) but they still don't want you in the scales. Of course they could chase you down when you drive by and charge you! How absurd. The laws here are a mess re personal trucks and RVs.

[beemerphile1]

You are not a commercial operation and have no reason to stop, drive on by.

[Commutator]

First, thanks to all for your input. I didn't realize that some states also require pickups to be plated as commercial so it's not just some Canadian vehicles with this issue.

Second, some people seem to base their responses on how my rig looks in my sig picture. I've been driving through the US for years like that and not worried about it at all. I look like an RV and figured they would not care. I also know I'm (barely) OK on my weight limits. There won't be any resemblance to an RV when towing with an empty pickup box pulling that trailer.

Wadcutter, thanks very much for the insight. There's no commercial aspect to what I'm doing except for my truck plates. I'm not hauling for sale, rental, possible prize money, nothing like that. Just for the novelty of driving around Florida with a Model T and our friends there.

This brings a little clarity, which is obvious, but I'd not seen. Yes, I know there is reciprocity re my drivers license and since I can legally drive my rig here without a CDL that will be true elsewhere in N America too. Similarly my valid vehicle registration will be respected. But what we are really talking about are the rules of operation on the road. Those have to be followed based on the jurisdiction you're in. I'll poke away at it a bit more but this has been a big help.

[hypoxia]

Some states automatically put a commercial license plate on over certain weights, a 1 ton pickup is a frequent example. That doesn't mean you are commercial. Driving a personal vehicle pulling a personal trailer not for hire, I would never consider stopping at the scales. They don't want private vehicles clogging up the commercial truck lines.

Wadcutter is the expert, no doubt about that. Pay attention to what he said.