What's up with Rocky Mt. National Park entry?

[okhmbldr]

I have a trip to Western Colorado planned for the last week of June. I will be staying at Westcliffe for a few days with friends, then had planned to go to Dillon for a night, then to Estes Park by way of the Rocky Mt. National Park, with a night in Loveland.
I just happened to check the website for the RMNP and noticed this new requirement for entry:

Reservations required to enter Rocky Mountain National Park
From May 28 through October 11, 2021, visitors to Rocky Mountain National Park will need a timed entry permit and an entrance pass to recreate in the park. Click "more" for details.

This "Timed Entry Permit" costs $25. My Senior Pass gets me into the park, but I have to pay and have a reservation to get in.

I guess I'm living in a bubble. My last trip to RMNP was 2004, just drove on Hwy 34 straight through the park.

I don't usually travel much during the summer months, mostly local trips, so maybe I'll just wait and go out of season. Less traffic suits me better.

[vern_kelly]

I was there last year in August and could not drive in from the west entrance to go to Estes due to the Governors orders. Had to have reservations they said, and being American was not good enough!. Could not get through on the phone to get reservations. Drove back down to I 70 and back up to get to our campground near Estes. Still could not get a reservation to get into the park but found out from the Campground host if you get up early and enter the park before 5 AM you were in for the day. Well he was right because they do not man the booth. Had a great day, hiked and drove up to the 12000 foot elevation with my RV! Crowds were minimal and had no real trouble parking. Made up for the long drive before. Supposedly this had to do with crowds, Pandemic ect.

[2g_s]

FWC wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

BCSnob wrote:

You’re ignoring the part about “for future generations” which will be difficult to fulfill if the numbers of this generation are destroying or changing what is to be preserved for future generations.

So do we just pick and choose who and when gets to see the NP’s? No. They need to restructure the NP service. It’s not the 1900’s anymore, parks need to grow with the people for future generations!

Unfortunately it is not like you can build another Yosemite Valley, or another Longs Peak, Yellowstone caldera, or a glacier. Even if you were to grow the system and add more National Parks, I am not sure it would reduce the visitations at the ones that have gone to reservations - there is a reason the visitation at RMNP is ten times higher than the Black Canyon.

The NPS isn't picking and choosing who and when you can visit the parks, the users are still choosing, they just have to plan ahead. This is the same system that has been in place for campgrounds, back country hikers, river runners and climbers for years.

Excellent reply. There can't be another Grand Canyon Nat'l Park or others. We need to take care of what we have and crowds like the two above posted photos is not taking care of our parks.

As volunteers in the national parks we saw first-hand the damage that some visitors do and the impact on crowds. It's not pretty.

We just need to plan ahead more and help to preserve the awesome parks we have.

[C_Schomer]

Those sites are typical gov't sites and they are TERRIBLE! It took me over a month to find the timed entry pass and I was even trading emails with RMNP staff. She kept telling me where to find it and it wasn't there.... A difference in our puter systems, I guess.
I finally found it at recreation.gov and I put "timed entry pass" in the search box. Then I chose RMNP from the parks list and I eventually found the timed entry pass. I had to experiment... and my way was a far cry from the instructions I got from the RMNP lady.
It actually a good idea... If it works. They meter the entries according to what the "pull overs" can handle. It's always been a free for all, finding a place to park and I had to skip half of the pull overs, in the past. Craig

[BCSnob]

Perhaps the 1900s mission statement for the NPS should be updated for the modern more populous time and the increasing population of the future and focus more on preventing the adverse impacts of visitation on the land/natural resources it has been entrusted to preserve (wild lands, not a drive through safari park).


How A Surge in Visitors Is Overwhelming America’s National Parks
JULY 31, 2017


A crowd waits to ascend the Half Dome in Yosemite National Park. BRIAN HUGHES/SUMMITPOST


Trail ridge rd 2017

[FWC]

dodge guy wrote:

BCSnob wrote:

You’re ignoring the part about “for future generations” which will be difficult to fulfill if the numbers of this generation are destroying or changing what is to be preserved for future generations.

So do we just pick and choose who and when gets to see the NP’s? No. They need to restructure the NP service. It’s not the 1900’s anymore, parks need to grow with the people for future generations!

Unfortunately it is not like you can build another Yosemite Valley, or another Longs Peak, Yellowstone caldera, or a glacier. Even if you were to grow the system and add more National Parks, I am not sure it would reduce the visitations at the ones that have gone to reservations - there is a reason the visitation at RMNP is ten times higher than the Black Canyon.

The NPS isn't picking and choosing who and when you can visit the parks, the users are still choosing, they just have to plan ahead. This is the same system that has been in place for campgrounds, back country hikers, river runners and climbers for years.

[BCSnob]

Are you willing to have a tax increase or a significant increase in entry fees to pay for the necessary infrastructure improvements to accommodate the increases in visitation?

[dodge_guy]

BCSnob wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

I would prefer there was no one telling me when and what time I could enter the park. That goes against why the NPS was created! “For the benefit and enjoyment of the people”! As of last year and this year, they have taken that away from the US (and visitiors from other countries) citizens!

You’re ignoring the part about “for future generations” which will be difficult to fulfill if the numbers of this generation are destroying or changing what is to be preserved for future generations.

So do we just pick and choose who and when gets to see the NP’s? No. They need to restructure the NP service. It’s not the 1900’s anymore, parks need to grow with the people for future generations!

[BCSnob]

dodge guy wrote:

I would prefer there was no one telling me when and what time I could enter the park. That goes against why the NPS was created! “For the benefit and enjoyment of the people”! As of last year and this year, they have taken that away from the US (and visitiors from other countries) citizens!

You’re ignoring the part about “for future generations” which will be difficult to fulfill if the numbers of this generation are destroying or changing what is to be preserved for future generations.

[Thom02099]

If one has a reservation for camping inside Rocky, the confirmation of the camping reservation is required to show proof of reservation and the $2.00 reservation fee doesn't apply.

Buried deep within nps.gov/romo:
Visitors with campground reservations and wilderness camping permits will use those permits as their timed entry reservations. You may enter the park on the first day of your camping reservation. Entrance fees apply and can be paid at the entrance station. Visitors must have these camping permits in advance. There will be no same day sales at the park’s campgrounds. Visitors must have their camping reservation confirmation visible.

[BarabooBob]

Quoted from the RMNP website, "This reservation period will be from 9 am to 3 pm. Reservations are not required for this area prior to 9 am or after 3 pm. Permits issued using the reservation system will allow park visitors to enter the park within two-hour windows of availability. The reservation system will apply to all areas of the park.
Easy solution, get there at 7:30 to make sure you get in before the 9:00am start time every day.

[FWC]

okhmbldr wrote:


According to the RMNP website the fee is $25.00. Maybe $2.00 goes to the contractor.
2015-2019 they averaged about 4.4 million visitors.
2020 was limited to 3.3 million guests. About 70% of the visits will be during the months the fee is collected.
(Allow about four guests per vehicle and the fee will equal about $70 million this year).

$25 is the entrance fee to the park, this is not new and unless you have a pass (either annual or geezer) you have always had to pay this at the entrance station and still do this year. What is new is that you have to book ahead and pay a $2 reservation fee. You still have to pay $2 even if you have a pass, this is the part of the fee that goes to the contractor.

Based on the estimate above, the park is actually loosing money by reducing visitation, however the experience will be better for the visitors.

[okhmbldr]

FWC wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Yep, they figured out a new way to make money from the NP’s we have already paid to use!

And it’s not just RMNP either!

To be clear, the parks are not making any money off this. The fee is $2 and it goes to the contractor that operates the reservation system. The park could pay the fee instead, but that would mean even less money for the parks themselves as the contractor still expects to be paid.

Same deal for the folks that are upset about this being charged to annual and geezer pass holders. This is a fixed cost to the park per visitor, would you prefer they take it out of their operating and maintenance budget?

According to the RMNP website the fee is $25.00. Maybe $2.00 goes to the contractor.
2015-2019 they averaged about 4.4 million visitors.
2020 was limited to 3.3 million guests. About 70% of the visits will be during the months the fee is collected.
(Allow about four guests per vehicle and the fee will equal about $70 million this year).

[FWC]

The issue was that some of the most popular parks were becoming so crowded that the visits were no longer enjoyable.

We have entrusted the NPS to manage the parks for the 'benefit and enjoyment of the people' but also to 'preserve unimpaired the natural and cultural resources' within the parks.

[dodge_guy]

FWC wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Yep, they figured out a new way to make money from the NP’s we have already paid to use!

And it’s not just RMNP either!

To be clear, the parks are not making any money off this. The fee is $2 and it goes to the contractor that operates the reservation system. The park could pay the fee instead, but that would mean even less money for the parks themselves as the contractor still expects to be paid.

Same deal for the folks that are upset about this being charged to annual and geezer pass holders. This is a fixed cost to the park per visitor, would you prefer they take it out of their operating and maintenance budget?

I would prefer there was no one telling me when and what time I could enter the park. That goes against why the NPS was created! “For the benefit and enjoyment of the people”! As of last year and this year, they have taken that away from the US (and visitiors from other countries) citizens!