Why not to buy used.

[Terryallan]

I know there are MANY on her who say. NEVER buy new, always buy used RVs. Myself. I always buy new, and here is an example why.

This week we were camping beside a man who had just bought a used 2015 TT. Over the course of the trip. He found out the toilet had been frozen, and had to be repaired. Then the water heater would not work, and the fresh tank was missing the plug. the list goes on.
Best thing about his trip is that he lived close by. So he didn't have to stay in a unusable TT. As soon as he fixed one thing. He found another. Didn't get to stay even one night at the CG.

That boys and girls. Is why I always suggest you buy new.

[jplante4]

No one is changing anyone's mind on this topic. Time to move on.

CLOSED

[valhalla360]

TomG2 wrote:
For the "Buy used" devotees, have I got a deal for you. One "lightly used" travel trailer.

Silly me, I am always overflowing the stool when all I want to do is flush out the holding tank. All the external mold is gone and the rest is trapped in the walls where it will not harm anyone. The rear wheels have a little extra "bonus" camber after the kid down at the station jacked up the rear axle from the center. No charge for this addition. Brother in law did a great job of upgrading the lighting although they now get too hot to touch after a few minutes of use. The battery only smokes after it has been allowed to get low on water and the original converter packs a solid 18 volts to keep things well charged. I blacked up the tires and hope you don't notice they are already out of date. Lots of tread though, and you said you would not be taking long trips. A few extra squirts from the power grease gun will keep the hubs and bearings nice and cool, but the trailer brakes are not too effective any more. I do wish that I had never walked my 300 pounds across the roof. It did NOT fall in, just sounded and felt like it. The air conditioner works fine (as long as it never gets over 80 degrees).

There she is boys, let the bidding begin on this "Lightly used" beauty. Glad that it was a nice day and thanks to Febreze for making the trailer smell like new. By the way, I am offering a fifty dollar discount for the fact that the outside speakers don't work. Don't ask why. Grab this trailer and load up the family for loads of fun and save four thousand dollars over new.

I suppose you have us. If you are a complete idiot who can't see the obvious you should pay the steep premium for a new unit. (are you really implying that those who buy new are simply stupid?)

For the rest of us with even a modest amount of experience, we'll save the money buying used and just do a decent job inspecting it before buying.

[valhalla360]

TomG2 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
The flaw in this logic is most RV's die of old age not system failures.

Thanks for making my point for me. When we purchase toys like campers, we are buying years of service. Which one has the most life left to give, a brand new unit or one that is already four years old?

Would you buy a unit with 20yrs of service left for $500k or one with 15yrs of service for $20k.

If as you indicate, you buy based solely on years of service, you would buy the $500k unit but most logical people would choose the second option.

Now I've exaggerated the numbers to demonstrate the principal but it holds true for typical new vs used choice.

I buy for "Cost per Year of Service".

[Ralph_Cramden]

Why not buy used? Its evident the best RV to buy is a used one. That being said I suggest a floor model returned from one, or better yet multiple RV shows. Nothing could be better than a rig that has had at least 10000 people going through it in the course of 6 or 7 days.

I was at the local dealer mulling around and pulled open a kitchen drawer to find a used diaper......whew, a little ripe too. I told him he had a surprise out in that unit LOL. He said they just brought that one back from the Pittsburgh RV show, and is nothing they had not seen before.

[TomG2]

valhalla360 wrote:
The flaw in this logic is most RV's die of old age not system failures.

Thanks for making my point for me. When we purchase toys like campers, we are buying years of service. Which one has the most life left to give, a brand new unit or one that is already four years old?

[TomG2]

For the "Buy used" devotees, have I got a deal for you. One "lightly used" travel trailer.

Silly me, I am always overflowing the stool when all I want to do is flush out the holding tank. All the external mold is gone and the rest is trapped in the walls where it will not harm anyone. The rear wheels have a little extra "bonus" camber after the kid down at the station jacked up the rear axle from the center. No charge for this addition. Brother in law did a great job of upgrading the lighting although they now get too hot to touch after a few minutes of use. The battery only smokes after it has been allowed to get low on water and the original converter packs a solid 18 volts to keep things well charged. I blacked up the tires and hope you don't notice they are already out of date. Lots of tread though, and you said you would not be taking long trips. A few extra squirts from the power grease gun will keep the hubs and bearings nice and cool, but the trailer brakes are not too effective any more. I do wish that I had never walked my 300 pounds across the roof. It did NOT fall in, just sounded and felt like it. The air conditioner works fine (as long as it never gets over 80 degrees).

There she is boys, let the bidding begin on this "Lightly used" beauty. Glad that it was a nice day and thanks to Febreze for making the trailer smell like new. By the way, I am offering a fifty dollar discount for the fact that the outside speakers don't work. Don't ask why. Grab this trailer and load up the family for loads of fun and save four thousand dollars over new.

[valhalla360]

Lantley wrote:

However my goal is to wear it out or use it until it is worth zero.

You are the rare exception then. The vast majority of people who buy new for big ticket items replace them when the "newness" has worn off not when they reach some nominal zero value.

Even then from a financial point of view, you are better off buying 3-7yrs old where it may have used 10-20% of it's life but the price has gone down by 25-50%.

If it makes you happy, go for it but don't for a second fool yourself into thinking you made a financially based choice.

[valhalla360]

TomG2 wrote:
I get the "Do it my way" mantra of the buy used crowd. I understand the opportunity cost of funds. I get all that.

Tell me this. Which water heater is more likely to fail? A new one or a three year old model? Which Air conditioner is most likely to be more efficient and reliable? A new one or a four year old unit? Which wheel bearings are going to fail sooner and ruin a vacation? Those hand packed by a skilled mechanic with the recommended lubricant or those serviced by a owner who thinks that "one grease is as good as another and I am going to sell it anyway"? People do the strangest things when they are going to dump their used stuff.

After forty years in the construction business, we always preferred to know the service life of a unit and therefore purchased new when dealing with critical equipment like backhoes. Fresh paint and a new set of decals only fools the unwise.

The flaw in this logic is most RV's die of old age not system failures. It's nothing for an Air/Con or water heater to last the life of the unit. If you grease the bearings, axles are the same. There might be a small statistical difference but nothing close to enough to cover the depreciation costs.

This is different from construction equipment that dies from being worn out thru day in day out use.

[zcookiemonstar]

New or used these are things that should have been discovered before he left home. Checking for water leaks of any kind is probably the first and most thing checked by people with any kind of camper multiple times each season. Why anyone would buy a camper of any kind and just go on a trip without checking the water system is just something unbelievable to me.

[Lantley]

DallasSteve wrote:

Lexx wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:

Lexx wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:
As a former CPA I must comment that depreciation is a cost of owning an RV even if you choose to ignore it to make yourself feel better. If you spend $100,000 on a motorhome and you keep it 50 years until you die you still lost the use of that $100,000 for other purposes. If you don't care about that extra $100,000, that's fine, but depreciation is still a real cost to anyone wanting to get into RVs.

Have you ever considered the opportunity cost of not living your life to the fullest? You only live once and you can't take it with you.

Yes, and that has nothing to do with the truth of my comment.

It most certainly does apply. Life is not a zero sum game IMO. How do you quantify "satisfaction" and "enjoyment". You might be a guy who loves buying used goods and get great satisfaction out of the money saved. Others may feel that they work hard for their money and want to spend on items they perceive offer them real value and they like the feeling of "new".

Is one right vs the other? It all depends on your situation. As a former CPA, surely you must have offered sound financial advice to your clients. Would you offer the same advice to a client who lots of disposable income and a secure career vs one who has lesser income and whose career may not be quite as robust? I would think not.

Not everyone wants or needs to buy used. I'm sure most people appreciate the fact that new always depreciates more relative to used. But there are other tangibles that affect the purchase decision.

As I stated, not living your life to its fullest is also a real opportunity cost. And indeed you can't take your money with you. So my advice is take a look at your own situation. If you're not sure, then talk to your financial adviser and do a lot of research.

We did just that. I'm 56 and just retired with three 6 yr old kids. I bought a brand new F450 (financed with an unsecured 2% loan so I can keep my profits in the stock market going) and then a fifth wheel for cash. We're going to spend our summers traveling with our kids, showing them North America and bonding with them to build lifetime memories. How much is that worth to me? Enough to retire early and give up many years of lost income because like I stated above, the opportunity cost of missing out on all that is too high for me.

Could we have done all that with a used trailer? Yes, but for what we were looking at there were only 2 used units available on rvtrader and they were both about 2k miles away and only about $7-8k net less than the cost of a new one. It's not worth it to me to schlep across the country to buy a used unit without a warranty that's been through who knows what.

Sorry for the long winded post.

Yep. Some people think if they talk more they become more convincing. Basically, once again, I didn't tell anybody to buy an RV or to not buy an RV. I didn't tell them to buy new or to buy used. I just pointed out that depreciation is a real cost even if they want to deny that it is a real cost. The opportunity cost of not living a full life does not negate that.

I'm not naive enough to believe my RV will not depreciate.
However my goal is to wear it out or use it until it is worth zero.
Well hopefully it won't be worth zero. But in 15 years if my 50K RV is worth $5K? or some minimal value I expect that. But I don't consider that depreciation, I consider that wear and tear to the point most of its value has been consumed through my use.
I understand the need to save and invest money . However I am not consumed with that idea. I don't need to analyze and rationalize every cent I spend.
At some point I'm OK with spending money on my vises. Be it football tickets, happy hour, lunch out or buying a new RV. I do not need to apply a bean counter mentality to every red scent I earn. Life is just too short/unpredictable for that.
Depreciation is as real of cost as you make it. You can let depreciation rule every monetary decision or you can flat out ignore it. In the end you will end up in the same place, it will not matter.
Cash or Credit the golden value rule still applies and supersedes all bean counting
Use your RV regularly and you will get full value out of it. Let it sit idle and you are wasting your money. No amortization charts required.

[TomG2]

Expyinflight wrote:
Yep...pretty much a useless discussion.

How do you figure. I learned a lot. If I was thirty years younger, a little short on cash, and enjoyed working on someone else's problems, I would be in the used RV market.

As an old guy with more money than time, I will keep on buying new. I have maintained that policy for ten new travel trailers and fifth wheel trailers in the last twenty years. Works for me.

See you down the road, once you get the repairs made.

[timjet]

I'm sure glad people buy new. Otherwise how would I get their 3 yo motorhome for half what they paid for it and with all the wrinkles worked out of it.

Of course if money were no object ....

[Expyinflight]

Yep...pretty much a useless discussion.

[2oldman]

Trekkar wrote:
Lots of debate, and I doubt that anyone's opinion has been changed.

Nope. Like trying to understand why someone likes certain foods you don't like. Ain't no winning that.