would you pay $41 to enter a National Park?

[tsetsaf]

I am calling BS on this story. Read it and the implication is that folks would be okay with an 80% increase in entrance fees if it ensured they would see a bear Article

[pnichols]

pasusan wrote:
Argh... How can you say generator noise and camping out in nature in the same sentence?

Hmmm .... have you ever traveled with a small but fully equipped RV 25 miles each way on extreme washboarded roads into the pristine, serene, and otherwise spectacular Oregon Outback to explore, rockhound, and camp under brilliantly beautiful but sometimes high daytime temperature skies - without RV air conditioning so as to be able to nicely rest and sort through what you found?

Try it ... then you might learn how generators and a true nature experience can, and must, indeed go hand in hand at times. Whether we did this very much or not I wouldn't own an RV at what one pays for them that couldn't do it, just in case our tastes changed.

[BubbaChris]

monkey44 wrote:
But, the real danger for the parks is Washington itself, closing the parks last year during the "budget crisis" ... we were kicked out of the parks when they closed, and it was a true tragedy for the folks that came on a vacation planned for months, sometimes years.

Last October was a milestone wedding anniversary for us and we were part of the hoards locked out of Grand Tetons and Yellowstone. It would have been my first visit to either of those NPs. I would have paid quite a bit to be let in rather than be turned away.

In the lead-up to the shut-down I wrote to my DC Senators and Congressman (first time in my life I was so motivated). I was very disappointed with how their replies focused on pleasing their backers rather than understanding the impact on a constituent who cannot replicate that opportunity.

It will be at least another year until we can attempt another Yellowstone trip. At least now we have the possibility of doing so with our TT.

[pasusan]

pnichols wrote:
Any high electricity costs that any of our NPs have to pay are because of "hookup mania" and/or "minimum/no generator mania" that many RV'ers have.

If most hookup site power pedestals would be disconnected (except for disabled folks) and generator hours extended ... at least five things would happen: 1) Less NP expenses, 2) Less NP campers for awhile until folks learned how to camp w/o electricity, 3) More noise from generators, 4) More business for Honda and Yamaha, and 5) More business for RV solar panel connected businesses.

I don't mind generator noise and I also think many RV'ers might eventually begin to really enjoy the various challenges of cutting their umbilical cords when camping out in nature.

Compare the crowding in RV drycamp campgrounds with the crowding in RV hookup campgrounds - usually a big difference.

Argh... How can you say generator noise and camping out in nature in the same sentence? :E Besides the cutting the umbilical cord thing? WOW.

[monkey44]

QUOTE: But just dividing that number by the number of sites and again by 12 months is equal to just over $150.00 per month, each site.

I doubt a camper will use $150 a month for electric. We don't even spend that much a month in our TH, and it includes water, electric, sewer, and we have no natural gas. So, that's it. Unlikely a TT or TC would, and tenters never, and maybe, just maybe a Class A with two A/C on hot days might jump it up.

So, I'm betting that figure includes everything at the COE, including operating costs and staff housing, and shop fees. And, primary purpose for COE is not camping, we build it to produce electric power for communities, and store water, the camping is a great bonus, but still a minor component of the COE system.

Once again, we'd agree to a rise in price to camp or enter a park, just don't put it all totally on the folks that have discount passes by taking those passes away. Increase the camping fee for EVERYONE that uses the parks and it can be a lot less ...

[OldRadios]

Two weeks until 62 and I can get my lifetime $10 senior pass pass. Will be camping in the mountains then but will grab it when I get back. Almost as exciting as starting to get some of my SS money back.

[wa8yxm]

I know this... When wife, friend and I went to the Grand Canyon, the person inquired if we had a senior pass.. (Wife qualified, now I do too) Turns out the admission with the pass, per car $0.00.. The pass cost less than admission.

[pnichols]

Any high electricity costs that any of our NPs have to pay are because of "hookup mania" and/or "minimum/no generator mania" that many RV'ers have.

If most hookup site power pedestals would be disconnected (except for disabled folks) and generator hours extended ... at least five things would happen: 1) Less NP expenses, 2) Less NP campers for awhile until folks learned how to camp w/o electricity, 3) More noise from generators, 4) More business for Honda and Yamaha, and 5) More business for RV solar panel connected businesses.

I don't mind generator noise and I also think many RV'ers might eventually begin to really enjoy the various challenges of cutting their umbilical cords when camping out in nature.

Compare the crowding in RV drycamp campgrounds with the crowding in RV hookup campgrounds - usually a big difference.

[tragusa3]

My family of 4 visited 15 parks, this summer, over a 40 day period. With our annual pass, it was perhaps the best value of my lifetime! The facilities, services and staff were impressive across the board.

I would support fees going up 10 fold if necessary to preserve the experience we had this summer.

Regarding the parks feeling like Disney, there were very few moments that felt that way.

[Dog_Folks]

gmctoyman wrote:
Nope, the NP's have gotten to be to much like Disney World...get an E Ticket and stand in line all day.

I'd have to find out where the electricity is leaking out of that COE park, it wold have to be huge for 30/50A campers to use that much power....and I guess that is generated cost ?

I'm sure there is some leakage. But just dividing that number by the number of sites and again by 12 months is equal to just over $150.00 per month, each site. Yes, every site is virtually in use all summer. That of course does not include the use of street lights, day use areas or guard house.

I just find it ironic that it sits right next to a generating station that the COE built and maintains, and the COE campground has to pay for electricity? The COE probably owns the dam, but I am not sure about that part.

[gmctoyman]

Nope, the NP's have gotten to be to much like Disney World...get an E Ticket and stand in line all day.

I'd have to find out where the electricity is leaking out of that COE park, it wold have to be huge for 30/50A campers to use that much power....and I guess that is generated cost ?

[Dog_Folks]

I agree that the parks do not get enough funding.

One particular COE park that sits right next to a hydro electric dam has the following income & expenses:

Total gate income, including camping fees, annually: $288,000

Total electric bill, alone, annually: $250,000

Doesn't leave much money for paid gate guards, maintenance, repairs, enhancements, etc.

[dewey02]

Greydog 1 wrote:
Yes it is a real shame to have our gov't rob us by the use of excess fees to these parks. We should do something about it. Until Congress acts,nothing will be done. The robbery will only get worse. And they don't even use a gun to do it with. We just drive up and sleepily hand over our money. What a gimmick.

Then don't go, if you feel you are getting robbed. It will make the park less crowded and more enjoyable for those of us who enjoy our parks and don't mind paying a fair price to visit. I do get tired of listening to people who spend 10's of thousands of dollars for an RV and then complain about spending a few bucks to visit some of the most beautiful and awe inspiring places on earth.

Guess what? It takes a lot of money to run these parks and keep them from being trampled by all the visitors that come. Try visiting some national or provincial parks in Canada if you want to experience high prices. Many of those parks must pay their own way, with receipts pretty much being their only income source, so they have to charge very high prices...and people still come.

Example (although not an RV example). permit fee for BWCA Wilderness in Minnesota is $16 for adult per trip (one trip can be two weeks or longer). The Adjacent Quetico Provincial Wilderness Park in Canada charges $21.50 per person Per day. A two week trip for two people: American side = $32. Canadian side = $602.

[time2roll]

Unfortunately the parks cannot grow to accommodate the forever increasing population.
What else should be done to limit crowds in the busiest parks? Maybe a lottery?
Overcrowding does increase the costs.

[Greydog_1]

Yes it is a real shame to have our gov't rob us by the use of excess fees to these parks. We should do something about it. Until Congress acts,nothing will be done. The robbery will only get worse. And they don't even use a gun to do it with. We just drive up and sleepily hand over our money. What a gimmick.

[monkey44]

noe-place wrote:
Makes my free national parks pass look even better.

Just hope you get to keep it, and it actually works in the future.