Cats & Carbs

[dturm]

I thought I’d update you all on some current information I got at the AVMA meeting.
Over time, many have commented on grain and carbohydrates (diets that contain them) and how they affect cats. Many point you to web sites that promote the idea that carbs are seriously harmful to cats, are an inappropriate diet, are causing diabetes and in general killing your cat.
The summary below was information obtained from a presentation by Dr. Jennifer Larsen (U Cal) and represents the best evidence we have at this time.

CAN THE CAT DIGEST, ABSORB, AND UTILIZE CARBOHYDRATES?
Although cats appear to have much lower pancreatic amylase activity than dogs regardless of diet1, they efficiently digest and absorb ground or cooked starch at concentrations typically found in commercially available diets.2-3

WHAT IS THE CONSEQUENCE OF CARBOHYDRATE CONSUMPTION?
Do carbohydrates cause obesity in the cat?
Retrospective studies have identified numerous risk factors for obesity in cats, including being middle aged, male, neutered, and eating ‘premium’ diets.5 Prospective research comparing food intake and body weight in cats eating diets that differed in carbohydrate and fat content (when protein was held constant) found that body weight increased as dietary carbohydrate was decreased.6 Other research has also identified dietary fat as a risk factor for obesity rather than carbohydrate.7

Do carbohydrates cause diabetes mellitus in the cat?
Perhaps because many cats are fed dry foods, a causative association between diabetes mellitus (DM) and carbohydrate consumption has been suspected. However, epidemiological analysis has found no association between the feeding of dry foods and the development of DM.8 The cause of DM in the cat remains unknown, but risk factors include obesity, advanced age, male gender, and neutering9, as well as indoor living and inactivity.8

SUMMARY
Research data does not support the theory that dietary carbohydrates cause obesity or DM in the cat. Low carbohydrate diets are one option for achieving weight loss in cats, provided that small volumes do not sacrifice compliance. More research is needed in the area of dietary treatment of cats with naturally occurring DM.

Any of you that want the references cites in the above summary, PM me and I’ll provide it.

Doug, DVM

[dturm]

There seems to be some confusion over the term OBLIGATE CARNIVORE and what it means to the diet composition for that animal. Some assume that it means that cats CANNOT digest or utilize grains & carbs and that is not true (see my post above about current research).

In fact, it is my understanding that the most obligate of carnivores still consume up to 30% of their diet in “other” nutrients (plant, fruit and fungi).

What it does mean is that to provide a nutritionally complete diet, meat sources of nutrients are essential in the quantities necessary to meet the minimum needs. This will be modified some as synthetic sources of essential nutrients become more available. The nutrient most deficient in our domestic cat diets (homemade, commercial and raw) is taurine, but this is now commonly supplemented in most commercial diets.

Some have assumed that our domestic cats by being obligate carnivores should not have grains in their diets and that if the grains are there, they are the source of all chronic or old age disease conditions found in cats. The current research DOES NOT support this position.

I’m not advocating grains be fed to cats. Cats can do quite well on a grain free diet – your choice.

It’s just that (according to the preponderance of relevant data we have available now) all the furor over grain free as related to the diets of our domestic cats appears to be baseless.

Doug, DVM

[Code2High]

resmas wrote:

Code2High wrote:
The big thing with house cats is always portion control and with the higher protein/fat foods that is really critical and it is easy to over feed. . Minget 1/4 cup each of kibble plus an ounce of raw food (mostly ground beef) each day. I bulk it up for some of them with green beans but that is all the actual food/calories they need.

It's also hard with cats because they generally won't come running and wolf down their serving when you put it down. Wet food - yes, dry food - not often. And if you have more than one cat in the household, how do you know who is eating what, and they need different diets.... Wow, the headache that can cause. I've had the "different diets - multiple cats" issue since Christmas Eve 2010. Not fun, but Tyndall has lived almost 3 yrs longer than her blood test numbers showed she should, so we continue...

Mine come running. These days they are getting Taste of the Wild twice a day, and when you only get two tablespoons of something that tastes quite yummy, you are NOT late for meals. It takes them a couple of minutes to eat and I sit on a stool and supervise. The fastest eater (Tabitha) gets the most green beans, then the boys less and Cleo none. It's like handicapping a race, I want them to be full and also to have the more aggressive eaters eating longer while the slower ones finish. In the AM they also get their little serving of meat.

Sputnik is eating separately these days as she is on a renal diet, which everyone else naturally loves. I put her in the bathroom or laundry, depending on what she's eating, and she eats what she wants and then yells when she's done. I put whatever kibble she hasn't eaten away in the bowl for the next time so it isn't wasted. And she can take her time and not have the young pig-cats waiting to snatch it from her. Her appetite is a little iffy now... I can't count on her eating any particular amount at any given time. (Except the tablespoon of steak she gets at night!!) But she's an old lady and deserves a little special care.

[CatandJim]

Thank you Dr. Doug.

I always find your posts informative and helpful, please don't stop doing what you can to educate us and keep us informed!

[dturm]

WandaLust2 wrote:

dturm wrote:
I thought I’d update you all on some current information I got at the AVMA meeting.
Over time, many have commented on grain and carbohydrates (diets that .....

Why are the links concerning cats being obligate carnovores I post constantly being removed? No other forum removes helpful links, sites by Veterinarians. Must we all agree with you and have no discussion here?

You just don’t get it. We’ve been going back and forth for a considerable time and you just refuse to change your pattern.

This forum is provided to allow the free exchange of information and ideas within the guidelines stated when you signed up. Your posts consistently promote an agenda while disparaging those with opposing ideas or opinions. I will continue to delete those without comment.

Concerning your recent flood of posts:
To dismiss research done by professionals because some funding (by way of grants to university veterinary schools to provide for resident positions in nutrition) is ludicrous. By your reasoning, none of the information given on any of the sites you reference should be of value because they sell things there and undoubtedly get income from the ads on the sites.

If society dismissed research and advancement made by companies that earn a profit, we’d still be without electricity (Thomas Edison – General Electric, Westinghouse), phones and computers (Alexander Graham Bell- Bell Labs) and we’d be practicing medicine like we did in the Civil War.

What is appropriate is to really evaluate ALL the information that is out there and make an informed decision based on the totality, ranking the evidence based on reliability and value.

You frequently cite web sites and blogs that are slick and full of opinion without any supporting research. Their conclusions are based on other individuals and web sites that basically agree with them.

The catinfo site in particular is produced by a veterinarian with no specialized training in nutrition. I have the same veterinary training and more years of experience than she, should my opinion be valued more?

I think not, but looking at other opinions of people who have post-doctorate training and spend their daily lives evaluating animal nutrition is probably more valuable. This is why I share the information.

Too often in our society today, people form an opinion and then search for “FACTS” that support their opinion. The internet makes this particularly easy, after all they can’t put anything on the internet that isn’t true :B

You undoubtedly will be able to find dozens if not hundreds of web sites that promote your opinion, but those sites seldom offer real research data, but rather offer opinion and circular reasoning that refers to each other.

I don’t remember if I’ve told this story before, I apologize if this is a repeat.

At my vet school graduation (36 years ago) I was pretty scattered taking state and national board exams, finals in my last block, getting a job and preparing to move.

But I do remember our graduation speaker and something has stuck all these years.

He gave the line “I’ve got good news and bad news.”
…
50% of what we just taught you is wrong …. (pause) That’s the good news.

The bad news is we don’t know which 50%.

I have a real problem with people that know THE answer and dismiss anyone else that has a differing opinion or experience. I’ll continue to moderate this forum with that in mind, offering my opinions and experiences.

I will delete (or correct) posts that are wrong to the point of being dangerous to animals or their owners.

If you are not comfortable with that, I invite you to stop posting.

Doug, DVM

PS this post is technically flaming, but I'm not going to delete it. If admin chooses to, so be it.

[resmas]

Code2High wrote:
The big thing with house cats is always portion control and with the higher protein/fat foods that is really critical and it is easy to over feed. . Minget 1/4 cup each of kibble plus an ounce of raw food (mostly ground beef) each day. I bulk it up for some of them with green beans but that is all the actual food/calories they need.

It's also hard with cats because they generally won't come running and wolf down their serving when you put it down. Wet food - yes, dry food - not often. And if you have more than one cat in the household, how do you know who is eating what, and they need different diets.... Wow, the headache that can cause. I've had the "different diets - multiple cats" issue since Christmas Eve 2010. Not fun, but Tyndall has lived almost 3 yrs longer than her blood test numbers showed she should, so we continue...

[WandaLust2]

dturm wrote:
I thought I’d update you all on some current information I got at the AVMA meeting.
Over time, many have commented on grain and carbohydrates (diets that .....

Why are the links concerning cats being obligate carnovores I post constantly being removed? No other forum removes helpful links, sites by Veterinarians. Must we all agree with you and have no discussion here?

[Code2High]

The big thing with house cats is always portion control and with the higher protein/fat foods that is really critical and it is easy to over feed. . Minget 1/4 cup each of kibble plus an ounce of raw food (mostly ground beef) each day. I bulk it up for some of them with green beans but that is all the actual food/calories they need.

[dturm]

There are three basic food categories, protein, fat and carbohydrates.

Interesting study comparing diets with carbs, balanced protein and fat. Similar diets with same protein and fat without the carbs resulted in more weight gain in cats fed diets with NO carbs.

It's way too simplistic to say that carbs cause all the ills, and by the way that position is not born out by the studies done to date.

[sher9570]

Funny our soon to be 18 year old JJ loves pasta, nowadays I have to cut it up a bit for him but he still loves it.

Sher

[CA_POPPY]

Interesting. Our new vet says cats crave and need fat in their diet. Possibly dumb question: Are fats in the carbs category? I told him that Edna (age 17) has eaten nothing but kibble and dry treats her entire life and we got her at 5 weeks. We've tried her with different kinds of canned food and people food and no go. She's been 12 lbs for many years. She drinks water regularly so no problem there. Full exam and blood work (the first in her life) last year showed old cat liver numbers, but otherwise fine. I have never checked the carb count on her food, which is a premium brand. She still plays like a kitten (in between naps) so maybe she knows what she likes and is sticking to it?

[Yaj]

Thanks for the info Doc!
I always like to see your opinion on a subject. This one applies to us because we have a gravitationally challenged kitty!