3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[jimpcon]

chadcarnes wrote:
or wire up the NEMA L14-30 plug to my 30amp plug.

First off, THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed to this topic. I have gotten so much info off of here and went out and bought the Power wise unit from "Manny, Moe, and Jack"(Pep Boys).

I want to do the same as you do. From what I have gotten from this topic, I will need to get a 50amp male to 30amp female "dogbone" and cut off the 50 amp end and wire on the L14-30 twist lock that came with the genset.

Is this something easy to do??
My electrical skills are in the slim to none range. I can change a lightbulb with no problem. I can also replace a bad switch or socket in my home but that makes me nervous. 🙂

On top of it I am a newbie to the RV scene. We pick up our new Prowler 27FQS TT tommorow(Wed). We dropped our truck off last night so they can do the hitch work today.

Any advice or tutorials that can be had for wiring this up would be appreciated.

THANK YOU!!!
Jim

[Smokeman]

Rotten Rob that is the Champion model. I bought two of them. The 4450 peak watt rating is there because it has a 20 amp breaker on the 220 volt plug. The 120 volt breaker is 30 amp. It is rated at 3500 watts continous. 196 cc engine, same frame, muffler etc as the rest of the chinese units. Seems OK so far.

[Capt-Ron]

Rotton Rob wrote:
Thanks for all the info on this site.I have been reading it since the beginng. Our local Schuck's has a 4450 peak wattage generator,for $299.00. Has any one heard of this one.Picture looks like it has 4 plugins.Looks like a 30,5o and two 15s.Also has a 6.5hp ohv engine. thanks for the info. Bob

I think that 6.5hp would be a little underpowered for 4450 peak power. Sound too good to be true for that price too.

Capt Ron

[mkmathis]

Is that the yellow one?(Champion) I looked at the manual and I think it said 76 decibels, but sure looked similar.

[Rotton_Rob]

Thanks for all the info on this site.I have been reading it since the beginng. Our local Schuck's has a 4450 peak wattage generator,for $299.00. Has any one heard of this one.Picture looks like it has 4 plugins.Looks like a 30,5o and two 15s.Also has a 6.5hp ohv engine. thanks for the info. Bob

[FrizzleFried]

I read somewhere on these boards that to help break-in the motor, you should use 30 weight oil and let it run for an hour or two max...then drain the oil and re-fill with synthetic...anyone else do that here?

[flamingoland]

thank you guys for all the research (read all 58 pages of it)
also dry camp at NASCAR (NHIS) and it's a pain having nothing for the 4 days, tried using a solar trickle charger, but last year it rained and was cloudy and after 3 days everything was dead!
i look forward to being able to take advantage of all the goodies my travelstar 17FK has that i've not gotten to use!

[chadcarnes]

Got my PowerPro 3500 from the local PEP Boys after getting a rain check last week (they even called to let me know it (only one) was in). I put in oil and gas and with one pull it came to life. Haven't had a chance to connect it to my 5th wheel yet or wire up the NEMA L14-30 plug to my 30amp plug. Very impressed so far, The true test will be the Coca-Cola 600 in a few weeks.

Thanks to all that contributed!

[Capt-Ron]

Finally, my local Pep Boys got a couple of PowerPro 3500's in this morning and I went down and bought both of them. Several people in this campground have told me that if I found any to buy them and so I got one for my next door neighbor. We were even discussing the idea of buying 6 ELIM3000's at a time from Eliminator to get a better shipping break.

After running them on my shop trailer with the A/C and all the lights on I'm impressed. They are only slightly louder than my Honda pair under the same load and $1,500 cheaper. They will use more gas but I can buy a lot for the $1,500 savings. I may just sell my Hondas at this point.

The manual is another pleasant surprise, very well written and no broken English or foreign language section. Somehow though I lost one of the manuals, have no idea what happened to it, just vanished into thin air while I was unpacking one of the generators. I'll have to make copies of the other one for my neighbor, I'll keep the original since I did all the leg work.

I stumbled on this thread last week and after reading all 54 pages became convinced that these generators where something to check into given the price. Thanks to the Professor and Mr. Wizard and all the others who posted this great information.

Capt Ron

[toprudder]

I was just not sure what you meant by "open ground". Also, why would only one side be grounded?

In a household (or any building for that matter) the neutral is bounded to ground in the main breaker panel. In other words, "neutral" (one side of the 120v plug) is 0v referenced to ground, the "hot" (other side of the 120v plug) is 120v reference to ground.

FWIW, I have seen generators where the neutral and ground were tied together internally.

[Clark_W__Griswo]

Jack,
I was just not sure what you meant by "open ground". Also, why would only one side be grounded?

[Jack_Shidemantl]

What exactly does this mean?

I am getting ready to change my outlet and this caught my attention. Just wondering if there is any possible way I could screw up this 15 minute job! My wife tells me I can make a 15 minute job an all day affair!

A typical project summary for me: (1. Plan 2. Go to Lowes 3. Take apart. 4. Realize I bought the wrong thing. 5. Back to Lowes 6. Go back to step 1 and repeat)

It means go ahead and change your outlet, wiring the new one same way as old. Should be no problems

[MrWizard]

the answer is yes all portable and RV genset
s are wired this way..

they do NOT come with grounding rods, and hook ups for syncing to the local power grid..

some emergency backup self start units, especially commercial & hospital grade units are built and wired like miniature power stations with bonded grounds, and producing 277 3 phase voltage for hooking into power distribution to power the whole building

but NOT portable or RV units


but NO

[Clark_W__Griswo]

Jack Shidemantle wrote:
Obviously one side of the generator output is not grounded. Is it supposed to be like that? How would a GFCI breaker work in this situation? Are all generators wired like this?

What exactly does this mean?

I am getting ready to change my outlet and this caught my attention. Just wondering if there is any possible way I could screw up this 15 minute job! My wife tells me I can make a 15 minute job an all day affair!

A typical project summary for me: (1. Plan 2. Go to Lowes 3. Take apart. 4. Realize I bought the wrong thing. 5. Back to Lowes 6. Go back to step 1 and repeat)

[Sonic1954]

In the original post of this thread by Professor95, he actually mentioned the durability of the Honda clone engine. It has been mentioned that it was supposed to be a licenced clone and it may be. However, overseas, they have patents and the patents also run out just like they do here. The patent has run out on the Honda engine. I am starting to see quite a few gas powered power tools now coming out with these Honda clone engines. My local lawnmower repair shop assures me that the parts for an original Honda will fit these clone engines. They are duplicates. There may be some areas that have been shortcut on these clones but they are good engines. The Honda engine is a pretty tough engine that is reliable and easy to start. You don't see the Chineese cloning a Techumsi or a Briggs do you? The patents are out on them as well.

Briggs is a good solid engine as well. The weak spot on them is their easy spin starting. If your Briggs gets easy to spin but hard to start, then you need to have the valves adjusted!

The Techumsi is also a good engine. For a long time it was the only small engine with a pressurized oil system. The weakness of a Techmsi is their carbirator. It gets out of wack very easily and is very sensitive to the main jet getting plugged or restricted with debris. Easy to fix if you know where to clean.

I have had a couple of Honda engines for over 10 years now. I have not found their weakness yet. If it has one at all, it is you do need to adjust the overhead valves but it is a simple task compared to adjusting the valves on a flathead Briggs.

Well this is more information than I intended to pass on but it is something you should know if you are buying a Honda clone. Parts are avaliable for the engine part of the genset you are buying!