3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[kabb]

Great job KD!!!

Thanks for taking the time for the pics and instructions. I need to get back to work on adjustments to my sound box now.

-Bob

[youth4him]

For those of you that might be interested, I created a sound enclosure for the genset, which has worked quite well. I don't have a meter, so just have to say it's substantially quiter than out of the box.

Thermal measurements indicate without the box, 115 degrees, with the box, about 150 or so with IR temp at the block on various places. This is still way within the operating limits.

If you have questions, please ask, if you want to tell me I'm an idiot, keep it to yourself, I'm very familiar with my own inadequacies. :B

Sound Abatement Enclosure

[skram]

TeamSlacker wrote: "My second weekend out racing this season, and the PowerWise 3500 is leaking oil. It was actually leaking the first weekend out, but I didn't notice it there since it was parked on the dirt. This past weekend with it sitting on the asphalt there was a oil stain underneath it after a few hours. I checked all the obvious like valve cover, etc, but with the leak between the motor and gen in the middle it looks like possibly the crank seal. I'm still within the 90 day exchange warranty with store I purchased at (Checker Auto) only problem is I just stoped there and they aren't stocking them anymore. I can either take it back and exchange it for the new one they have sitting on the floor in the store, which also has oil underneath it (but possbily just shipping oil as it's never been run). Or exchange it for the yellow Champion units they are carrying now and pay the difference. Now I just have to go back and read thru 60 pages worth of posts here again and find out if the Champion one will be acceptable."

I had my new Champion unit in use at Indy this weekend. I ran it for a total of about 15 hours. I used a 30 amp twist lock receptacle with an adapter from Northern tool to connect my RV cord. Ran fine, didn't trip a breaker once. Wasn't warm enough to need the AC, but I ran it for a short time w/o problems. There seems to be 2 spec sheets out there with 2 different noise levels, the lower of which is 68 db, which is probably correct. No one complained about the noise at the quiet campground. There may be 2 versions of this generator, make sure you get the one with a 30a plug in. In short I'm very happy with the unit so far.

[Dubman]

First real-world test of my ELM3000 this past weekend also.. Ran it Saturday and Sunday 9-11am&4-7pm.. It didn't skip a beat.. Ran microwave(No timer issues), wifes 1800W hairdryer, battery charger all with no problems.. I did start A/C, but with low temps outside it was not needed.. Noise issue not a problem for me.. Just bought a new to me truck, and installed a Bedrug in the back(Didn't buy it just for genset, wanted one anyways)Bedrug.. Ran it in back of box, with tailgate open approx 5" held open with tie strap.. Also have tonneau cover on back.. Noise level was very low.. Had 110V house fan aimed at air cleaner side of engine, and exhaust facing tailgate with 1" EMT to route exhaust out back. Generator head, framing, and gas tank never got too warm to touch.. Bedrug material did an excellent job of absorbing noise!! Not cheap though at 299.00, but it was something I needed anyways.. Do not have a Db meter, but standing halfway between a Honda EU2000i(Idle control off) and my ELM3000, they sounded the same... I am one happy camper at the moment, but will have to wait for long term results to be 100% convinced that these are great units.. So far, it is the best 250.00 I ever spent..

BTW.. Like Prof95, I just got an Email confiming my rebate also... I was starting to wonder if it would be honored...

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
My second observation was one I missed in earlier tests. The microwave oven timer ran at double speed. Yea, if I wanted to run the microwave for one minute, I had to set the timer for two minutes! Apparently the microwave is seeing the output from the generator as a 120 Hz power source.

Professor,

Check out this thread about this very problem.

[chadcarnes]

Got to try out the PowerPro 3500 this past weekend at Charlotte. Thursday afternoon (we got set up around 2pm) I wired it to my 50 amp service with the 240 NEMA plug. It would start the AC, but would trip the circuit breaker after 10 minutes or so. After letting the generator cool (still running) I'd restart the AC. After this cycle a few times I plugged it into the 120V plug. ?It seemed to run better, but in hindsight it had cooled down outside by that evening. It ran the AC with no problems up until quite hours starting at 11pm.

I restarted the generator on Friday to brew coffee and run my wife's hair dryer. It worked with no problem. A started the AC around 11am, it ran for an hour or so without tripping the breaker. As the day heated up, it would not keep it running. I went to Northern Tools in Concord, NC and purchased a EU3000is, as my wife and baby was getting hot! It ran it with no problems...

I believe that the separate windings need to be rewired as per Mr Wizard and Prof95 to get this unit to work. I took it back to Pep Boys and exchanged it for "other stuff".

All said, I was impressed with the unit, I just had to make a decision, our my wife would never go to another race... My neighbor had 2 EU2000 that worked great and he said he was impressed with the noise of the PowerPro, he expected it to be very loud.

Chad

[professor95]

This past week was our first real “dry camping” trip of the season with a chance to test out the ELM3000.

Five nights in the mountains of Virginia with lows in the low 40’s without any power hook-ups can be a challenge, especially when you want to take all of the conveniences of a satellite dish, microwave, 27” TV with surround sound amp and DVD player and the requisite hair dryers for my wife and visiting daughter.

My normal set-up includes an 8d battery for house power being fed by 100 watts of solar panels. The 8d provides 450 reserve minutes of power – normally enough power for frequent use of the water pump, lights and furnace during the night. With plenty of sunshine (the trees were just beginning to get leaves) the solar panels provided ample power to keep this battery charged and the generator was not needed for the house side of the system

On the auxiliary side, I have four deep cycle marine batteries in parallel feeding a 1,200-watt inverter. These two batteries give me a little over 360 minutes of reserve capacity. This power is for the entertainment equipment, small kitchen appliances like a blender for mixing drinks and two curling irons. So, with a continuous 600 watt draw at 120 volts I can only depend on these batteries to give me about three hours of service before the inverter disconnects them (barely enough to watch The Aviator Friday night). Solar power for recharging these batteries comes from a 48-watt panel. There was not enough solar energy to fully recharge the inverter batteries so the ELM3000 was called in to power a Century 40 amp battery charger for a couple of hours during the day to bring these back up to par (we had to watch the Indy race on Sunday).

The generator was also needed for the microwave and hair dryer as well as the Black and Decker Spacesaver coffee maker on several mornings after I tired of “muddy” java from the stovetop percolator. Later, when hot weather hits, it may come into play for running the air conditioner as well.

My camping neighbors at Big Meadows to the left and right both had Honda 2000 inverter units. Another camper three sites down had the 3000-watt Honda inverter. The camper behind me did not have a generator at all. The Hondas were darn near silent, humming along with only a barely discernable drone. My ELM3000, while NOT being excessively noisy, was noticeably louder than any of the Hondas.

On Saturday, one of the NPS Campground Hosts stopped to talk for a few minutes. He commented on the ELM3000, noting that it sure was a large generator. I gave him a little history on the origins of the unit and the $229.00 final price tag when he commented, “...and it meets National Park Service noise regulations”. This made me stop for a moment, wondering how he knew that it met regulations if he was not familiar with the unit. So, I asked him, “How did you know it met regulations?” His response was, “I measured the sound level earlier this morning.” I wanted to ask him why he measured it, wondering if someone had complained or if this was just a normal procedure, but decided to just let the question stop there.

One item worth mentioning though, along the noise line, was on our first day in the campground, I had noted a fellow camper about 5 units away running a Home Depot type commercial generator that was pretty loud. He did not use it on subsequent days. Perhaps he was told not to run it due to the high noise level?

My second observation was one I missed in earlier tests. The microwave oven timer ran at double speed. Yea, if I wanted to run the microwave for one minute, I had to set the timer for two minutes! Apparently the microwave is seeing the output from the generator as a 120 Hz power source. This is one thing I need to look into further. Other than the timer thing, the microwave worked normally, as did the battery charger and hair dryers. The clock on the coffee pot also ran normally. I forget to check the clock on the microwave, but am assuming it also ran at double speed.

All totaled, I ran the ELM3000 for about eight hours over five days. Starting with a full tank of fuel, I came home with about a 1/4 a tank. It started first pull every time and even with the generator on the back carrier of the RV, we could not hear it inside while sitting at the dinette unless the windows were open.

I am pleased with the ELM3000, but still envious of the quietness of the neighbor’s Hondas. I want to revisit the sound abatement issue. One idea I have is to move the ELM3000 into the back of my tow vehicle, which has a camper shell over the bed, and route the exhaust to the outside via some 1” conduit using a “cord hatch” like the one on the RV placed in the truck’s camper shell and painted to match. I am thinking that the shell will kill most of the mechanical noise, especially if I place sound absorbing material inside. Some indoor-outdoor marine grade carpet would do nicely glued to the inside of the shell with 3M High Strength 90 spray adhesive and still allow for adequate cooling. This will be an easy one to test and is on my agenda for next weekend when we begrudgingly stay at home.

One last item... I just received notification via e-mail that Pep-Boys has processed and approved my rebate form for the ELM3000 (11 weeks after sending it in!) and I could expect my check in 3-4 weeks. I sure am glad I was not in a hurry to get that money back!

Happy campin'!

[Capt-Ron]

Try going to the source: Elim3000L.

Capt Ron

[tomcrosley]

I'm interested in buying an ELM3000L but don't know where to get one. Anyone know of a website that's selling them? At that price how can you go wrong. I understand them have a honda engine.

[chadcarnes]

My PowerPro paperwork said not to return to store. With Questions or Problems call 888-315-3080 M-F 8-5 CT.

Chad

[TeamSlacker]

My second weekend out racing this season, and the PowerWise 3500 is leaking oil. It was actually leaking the first weekend out, but I didn't notice it there since it was parked on the dirt. This past weekend with it sitting on the asphalt there was a oil stain underneath it after a few hours. I checked all the obvious like valve cover, etc, but with the leak between the motor and gen in the middle it looks like possibly the crank seal. I'm still within the 90 day exchange warranty with store I purchased at (Checker Auto) only problem is I just stoped there and they aren't stocking them anymore. I can either take it back and exchange it for the new one they have sitting on the floor in the store, which also has oil underneath it (but possbily just shipping oil as it's never been run). Or exchange it for the yellow Champion units they are carrying now and pay the difference. Now I just have to go back and read thru 60 pages worth of posts here again and find out if the Champion one will be acceptable.
It's leaking enuf to leave oil marks on the ground, but after running it fri-sun (probably 40hrs) it didn't leak enuf to have to add any oil to keep it in operating range.

[Jim-Linda]

MrWizard, enlighten me on why I will need a switch. Why would it be any different than plugging into shore power?

Jim

[MrWizard]

yes it could be done

you will need a mulit-pole switch 4 or 5 pole rated for the max current of the generator

it will have to be in the correct position before the generator is started

and can NOT be safely switched while the generator is running

[Capt-Ron]

Jim-Linda wrote:
I realize I will only have the wattage the gen is capable of, and not trying to run everything. I think this will be better for a 50amp equipped trailer, rather than using a dogbone. Comments?

Jim

That's exactly what I did, the day before I sold the generator to a buddy. I gave him the adapter that I made with the stipulation that he replace the 4 pole 50 amp receptacle or give me back the original.

Capt Ron

[Jim-Linda]

Here's my plan for the Power Pro... I want to mount it on a receiver hitch platform on the rear of the trailer. I have a 50amp female connector and would run a 4 conductor, 10ga cable to the 220v male plug that is furnished with the generator. My shore power connector is located near the left rear of the trailer, so the cable run would be pretty short.

I realize I will only have the wattage the gen is capable of, and not trying to run everything. I think this will be better for a 50amp equipped trailer, rather than using a dogbone. Comments?

Jim