3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[ib516]

LittleBill said:

"if you look for my posts in the thread, i gave exact figures on the elim3000, i had it running supposly around 3100 watts for over 4 hours at a voltage i think of 114, at 59hz, u would have to go back and look, i never once blew the breakers, which are dual 15's"

Thanks LittleBill, I'll do a search, and review your posts.

[PatJ]

77charger, I spent some time playing wih my Champion, the results are back at the top of page 53.

Pat

[LittleBill]

ib516 wrote:
RadioNeal, great minds think alike:). I have a question for those of you who are following this thread, or own an Elim 3000w gen. I have one on order, but due to the fact that there are all of the different brands that appear to be very similar gensets, I'm a bit confused.

I would like to know if an Elim 3000 can run a 13,500 BTU A/C and a 1000w (output - 1500w consumption) microwave at the same time. My trailer is a 2004 (new model A/C unit), and the A/C does not have the soft start kit or anything else installed. It is just the way it came from the factory. I asked the same question of VicT, and he answered his will run A/C and mic at the same time, but now I see he has a truck camper, which likely has a smaller A/C unit then mine.

The reason I am concerned is that I was out camping theis past weekend, and we were in a group camp area. No hook-ups, and no one around for miles. Perfect opportunity to run my Homelite 4400w gen, and give it a test in a campground situation where the noise wouldn't bother anyone. The Homelite is 3600w continous, 4400w peak. I had it hooked up using my shore power cord with the small block adapter to allow me to plug into one of the regular household type (3 pring) outlets. The gen really labored to get the A/C running. I turned it off and on a few times, and it eventually popped the breaker in the gen. I am not sure if the whole 30A the gen is capable of can be sucked out of one of these outlets. I am beginning to think it is not. The gen has two pop out style breakers, two 15A household type plugs, and one L14-20 twistlock plug. When I have a regular 30A hook up in the campground, the A/C fires up much faster than it did when hooked to the gen. I have tried A/C, mic, and every light in the trailer at the same time this way before (in my driveway whan I first got the Homelite) and the gen didn't seem to labor as much, at least I don't remember it sounding like it did. I don't remember the weather conditions at that time, but niether the driveway test or the CG test was at above 75F and they were both at roughly the same elevation (I'm in the prairies).

This leads me to the concern with the Elim. It's rated at 2800w running, 3000w peak. I seem to remember reading on one of the previous 70 pages someone saying that the whole 30A or so is available through one of the conventional (15A household type) outlets. If this is the case, I'll actually run better with the Elim than with the Homelite.

Any knowledge out there to help me? Wizard? Professor?

if you look for my posts in the thread, i gave exact figures on the elim3000, i had it running supposly around 3100 watts for over 4 hours at a voltage i think of 114, at 59hz, u would have to go back and look, i never once blew the breakers, which are dual 15's

[Glackowitz]

77charger wrote:

The Jung dong generator is hard to find here in so cal.So I was wondering about the champion powerwise 3500 also at kragens for 299.00
Is it as quiet as the elims?
do you get the full 3000 watts from the plugs?

Well I went and bought the Champion at Schucks for the 299.00 and brought it home. added oil to the case...Mobil synthetic 10-30.

Added gas, and pulled and pulled and pulled...maybe 40-50 times
found the petcock to be plugged and wasn't allowing gas to carb, cleaned it and fired first pull with no choke.

It came with the wheel kit and handle, 12volt leads, extra air cleaner element, spark plug wrench, 12/14mm open end wrench( don't know why?? all most all assembly bolts were 10mm, spark arrestor. recoil starter was a bit of an issue as several times it didn't go all the way back in, did after I pulled it out and let in back in slowly.

Specs from manual:

3500 running watts
4450 max watts
6.5HP OHV Champion engine (EPA & CARB Certified)
4 Gallon tank (15L)
12 hours at 50% running time
28.15" (L) X 18.11" (W) X 18.50 (T)
115.50 lbs Gross weight
68 DBI from 7 meters sound level

I only had it running the 2 ceiling lights and refrigerator
so I don't know if it did the full 3500 watts, guess I will try it again tomorrow and add in the 1100 watt coffee maker and a few other things. It was a bit louder than I was expecting so I will use a level meter and see what it really is. It was quiet when I came in the house though

They had 1 powerwise and 5 champions in stock plus the floor model champion. and this was 1 of three stores. was only one with powerwise model and only saw the floor model there

Glack

[77charger]

Glackowitz wrote:
Hello all new guy here.....

I just bought a forest river rockwood tent trailer and been looking at generators for it. Wife has to have her coffee in the morning..

I have looked at ebay and several other sites and found this one to be the best.

Out local Shucks has the champion 3500 watt in stock and just looking to see what everyone else has come to on the reliability of this unit?? they also have the powerwise in stock

The champion looks to have the 220 on it as well as a 12v out

both are 299.00

Thanks All

Glack

The jung dong generator is hard to find here in so cal.So i was wondering abou the champion powerwise 3500 also at kragens for 299.00
Is it as quiet as the elims?
do you get the full 3000 watts from the plugs?

[VicT]

Thanks for all the advice on my oil problem. I will let you know as I progress through this and answer some of your points:

1. The gas leak was from a visible hole in the line not from the carb drain plug.
2. I drained a bunch of the gas through the petcock and put it in a clear jar. No oil in the gas.
3. Going back to my original posting the Oil cap/dipstick was tightened, allowing oil to come out during transport if it was not standing up correctly. I believe the oil drained out and every time the box was moved it ended up running all over the outside of the engine. There seemed to be a fair amount in the air cleaner. How could it have gotten inside there. Is it possible if the unit sat upside down for a long period of time that oil could have saturated through the cylinder into both the airbox and the muffler.
4. I do think that there is oil in the muffler as it is when the muffler gets hot then the smoke gets real bad.
5. I don't see any oil burning of anywhere else because I cleaned it very thoroughly, and the smoke is very definitely coming out of the muffler.

I think this unit will be ok and I plan to run it till the smoking stops on Wednesday evening. Or I could run it here and tell my neighbors I bought a fancy new misquito fogger.

[guy48065]

VicT wrote:

it literally was covered in nice clean new oil. As if it had been on a spit and someone had basted it. Added the appropriate amount of new oil about .4 of a liter. This did not overfill it. Then when I started the engine (started easily) the warmer the engine got the more blue smoke I got.

Not sure I understand if the blue smoke is coming from the exhaust or is the oil burning off the (external) cylinder and muffler. Either way let it run awhile more & see if it stops.

[ib516]

Thanks RadioNeal. I suspect my Homelite is wired for only 15A to be available on one outlet by the way it performed this weekend. I feel relieved...and I see on your edit about the 20A plug. I wondered why they had that funny little extra slot. Had no idea that meant they were 20A. BTW, my homelite doesn't have 20A plugs, just 15A.

[RadioNeal]

The beauty of the ELM3000 is that when in 110 Volt mode, it's full wattage is available from the single outlet. BTW it is equipped with a 20Amp rated outlet, not a 15Amp. You can tell by looking for the extra slot to accomodate a 20 Amp plug. The ELM3000 runs both windings in parallel when in 110volt mode. I don't know how the Homelite is wired, but most gensets require modification in order to feed full power to one socket. Many on here have run A/C units with no problem, but running A/C and a microwave sounds like an overload, unless it's a very small microwave.

I would suggest that, for some good summer reading, you skip the latest over-priced hardcover on the Best Seller list and read this thread from the beginning instead. (Okay, not much of a plot, but a large list of colorful characters...)

ib516 wrote:
RadioNeal, great minds think alike:). I have a question for those of you who are following this thread, or own an Elim 3000w gen. I have one on order, but due to the fact that there are all of the different brands that appear to be very similar gensets, I'm a bit confused.

I would like to know if an Elim 3000 can run a 13,500 BTU A/C and a 1000w (output - 1500w consumption) microwave at the same time. My trailer is a 2004 (new model A/C unit), and the A/C does not have the soft start kit or anything else installed. It is just the way it came from the factory. I asked the same question of VicT, and he answered his will run A/C and mic at the same time, but now I see he has a truck camper, which likely has a smaller A/C unit then mine.

The reason I am concerned is that I was out camping theis past weekend, and we were in a group camp area. No hook-ups, and no one around for miles. Perfect opportunity to run my Homelite 4400w gen, and give it a test in a campground situation where the noise wouldn't bother anyone. The Homelite is 3600w continuous, 4400w peak. I had it hooked up using my shore power cord with the small block adapter to allow me to plug into one of the regular household type (3 pring) outlets. The gen really labored to get the A/C running. I turned it off and on a few times, and it eventually popped the breaker in the gen. I am not sure if the whole 30A the gen is capable of can be sucked out of one of these outlets. I am beginning to think it is not. The gen has two pop out style breakers, two 15A household type plugs, and one L14-20 twistlock plug. When I have a regular 30A hook up in the campground, the A/C fires up much faster than it did when hooked to the gen. I have tried A/C, mic, and every light in the trailer at the same time this way before (in my driveway whan I first got the Homelite) and the gen didn't seem to labor as much, at least I don't remember it sounding like it did. I don't remember the weather conditions at that time, but niether the driveway test or the CG test was at above 75F and they were both at roughly the same elevation (I'm in the prairies).

This leads me to the concern with the Elim. It's rated at 2800w running, 3000w peak. I seem to remember reading on one of the previous 70 pages someone saying that the whole 30A or so is available through one of the conventional (15A household type) outlets. If this is the case, I'll actually run better with the Elim than with the Homelite.

Any knowledge out there to help me? Wizard? Professor?

[ib516]

RadioNeal, great minds think alike:). I have a question for those of you who are following this thread, or own an Elim 3000w gen. I have one on order, but due to the fact that there are all of the different brands that appear to be very similar gensets, I'm a bit confused.

I would like to know if an Elim 3000 can run a 13,500 BTU A/C and a 1000w (output - 1500w consumption) microwave at the same time. My trailer is a 2004 (new model A/C unit), and the A/C does not have the soft start kit or anything else installed. It is just the way it came from the factory. I asked the same question of VicT, and he answered his will run A/C and mic at the same time, but now I see he has a truck camper, which likely has a smaller A/C unit then mine.

The reason I am concerned is that I was out camping theis past weekend, and we were in a group camp area. No hook-ups, and no one around for miles. Perfect opportunity to run my Homelite 4400w gen, and give it a test in a campground situation where the noise wouldn't bother anyone. The Homelite is 3600w continous, 4400w peak. I had it hooked up using my shore power cord with the small block adapter to allow me to plug into one of the regular household type (3 pring) outlets. The gen really labored to get the A/C running. I turned it off and on a few times, and it eventually popped the breaker in the gen. I am not sure if the whole 30A the gen is capable of can be sucked out of one of these outlets. I am beginning to think it is not. The gen has two pop out style breakers, two 15A household type plugs, and one L14-20 twistlock plug. When I have a regular 30A hook up in the campground, the A/C fires up much faster than it did when hooked to the gen. I have tried A/C, mic, and every light in the trailer at the same time this way before (in my driveway whan I first got the Homelite) and the gen didn't seem to labor as much, at least I don't remember it sounding like it did. I don't remember the weather conditions at that time, but niether the driveway test or the CG test was at above 75F and they were both at roughly the same elevation (I'm in the prairies).

This leads me to the concern with the Elim. It's rated at 2800w running, 3000w peak. I seem to remember reading on one of the previous 70 pages someone saying that the whole 30A or so is available through one of the conventional (15A household type) outlets. If this is the case, I'll actually run better with the Elim than with the Homelite.

Any knowledge out there to help me? Wizard? Professor?

[RadioNeal]

VicT wrote:
Help I need some advice here..

This is where I need the help. In 1. above I talked about oil. I cleaned up the whole unit including oil inside the air filter (yes more than an Air filter should have) and I wiped down the whole unit and it literally was covered in nice clean new oil. As if it had been on a spit and someone had basted it. Added the appropriate amount of new oil about .4 of a liter. This did not overfill it. Then when I started the engine (started easily) the warmer the engine got the more blue smoke I got. I let it run for a total of about 25 minutes and the smoke was so bad I decided I would have to take it out to the country to burn off the oil because I was concerned for my neighbors. The smoke was definitely coming from the exhaust. Do I have a dude here or will it burn clean after a few hours of running. Thanks for any advice I can get.

VicT, Don't give up hope yet...
Just a wild guess on my part, but if the whole thing was soaked in oil, then there could well be oil in the muffler. When it heats up, you have the same basic system the military uses to generate smokescreens!

First drain any fuel from the gas tank, it may have oil in it. If the unit was soaked in oil, it could be that oil got into the fuel tank, and is now mixed with the fuel. Draining it will remove any oil from the gas tank.

I would invest in a gallon of fuel and run the unit for an hour or two. If the engine runs smoothly, then the oil is probably not entering the cylinder, or the plug will foul and the engine will run rough.

If the oil is entering from the crankcase, it will run low and the low oil sensor will shut the unit off.

If the smoke goes away, it was probably in the exhaust system.

I have 2 ELM3000 units, and both work great. Only mod I did was to install higher quality receptacles.

Good luck,

Cheers!

[ib516]

VicT, have you checked the carb drain plug as the source of your leak? I remember a few posters saying that theirs was loose upon delivery, hence the gas leak. So many so that the professor noted it as a common problem.

As for the oil thing, it sounds to me like your gen was transported (at one time during delivery) upside down. I know this would take a little time, but try running the thing longer (a few hours at least) to see if the smoke clears up. Worst thing that could happen is you'll foul the plug. They're not that expensive. You could also see if the crankcase oil level drops as the blue smoke continues. If it is buring that much oil, it would eventually drop the level in the crankcase. Oil level drops - trouble. Oil level doesn't drop - it may be burning oil that got into the upper parts of the engine when it was upside down. It should then burn off and clear up. You'd be surprised at how little oil will make a whole lotta blue smoke.

Just a guess, but worth a try.

Edited for spelling/grammer

[Glackowitz]

Hello all new guy here.....

I just bought a forest river rockwood tent trailer and been looking at generators for it. Wife has to have her coffee in the morning..

I have looked at ebay and several other sites and found this one to be the best.

Out local Shucks has the champion 3500 watt in stock and just looking to see what everyone else has come to on the reliability of this unit?? they also have the powerwise in stock

The champion looks to have the 220 on it as well as a 12v out

both are 299.00

Thanks All

Glack

[Dubman]

I have never, from day 1, gotten any smoke.. About 20 hours on mine so far, and no problems.. Think you have a dud!! JMHO...

[VicT]

Help I need some advice here..

VicT wrote:
Well this Canadian just had his delivered from Elim in buffalo. My cost was $380.00 US including shipping and the it arrived today with a COD of $79.00 Canadian for GST and Broker fees.
More interesting is when I opened the box;

Here is an exert of the email I just sent them:

The product arrived today and I really look forward to trying it. This package arrived very nicely protected for shipping and there appeared to be no damage in any way. When I opened the package however I was disappointed to notice the following:

1) The box was very oily from the inside and upon examination the oil plug/dipstick had been tighten with the rubber O ring squeezed over to one side to the point that there was a gap that would allow oil to drain if not sitting upright. I think this is caused by over tightening and I also think the O ring is one size to large.

2) The Manuel, spark plug tool, and all the male plug-in ends that are shown in the listing were not included.

3) It appeared that someone had grabbed the dashboard right where the 220/110 toggle switch is located and bent the metal dashboard outward. I doubt that this could have been done in shipping as then it would have been bent inward not outward.

4) Probably due to 3 above the toggle switch was broken and although still visible it was none functional and only being held from falling to the bottom of the box by the black plastic cover that covers the back of all the wires and switches and has a number 8 on it.

5) Due to the bend the breaker switches were also bent way to the side and looked as if they had been installed at an angle.

6) This black cover appears intact but all the little tabs are broken making it difficult or impossible to stay in place unless I use some duck tape or something like it.

This is what I have done:

1. Straightened the dashboard or metal that holds all the gauges
2. Bent the two breakers back so they look straight from both the back as well as the front.
3. Tried to repair the toggle switch and although I was able to reassemble it. I am not confident it will work because it appears very loose and the neck that comes out of the housing of the switch was popped out. I was able to put it back in but It doesn't feel right.
4. I have not started it.

I am waiting to see how we will resolve these issues.

Elim is shipping me the toggle switch and the black cover. So since I now think I will be using the unit I decide to put in some gas.
Well more Problems: The Gas line has a hole in it very close to the shut off. I will need to get a new rubber gas line as it is to short to use if I cut it where the hole is. I do that and believe it or not Another problem:

This is where I need the help. In 1. above I talked about oil. I cleaned up the whole unit including oil inside the air filter (yes more than an Air filter should have) and I wiped down the whole unit and it literally was covered in nice clean new oil. As if it had been on a spit and someone had basted it. Added the appropriate amount of new oil about .4 of a liter. This did not overfill it. Then when I started the engine (started easily) the warmer the engine got the more blue smoke I got. I let it run for a total of about 25 minutes and the smoke was so bad I decided I would have to take it out to the country to burn off the oil because I was concerned for my neighbors. The smoke was definitely coming from the exhaust. Do I have a dude here or will it burn clean after a few hours of running. Thanks for any advice I can get.