3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[presp]

lprice wrote:
Special thanks to the professor for starting this forum.

I agree, special thanks to the professor for starting this thread.
(good reminder to appreciate the power of just plugging it in and having it work! )

Pres

[lprice]

I received my Eliminator 3000L last week and connected it to the travel trailer this past weekend. I experienced no problems. It operated the a/c and microwave at the same time. Special thanks to the professor for starting this forum.

[MrWizard]

catalina30

this forum has more to do with what is feasible & practical to accomplish NOT what might be technically possible if you have the resources to attempt it

[Caveman3]

New member here. I joined just because of this valuable thread. I hope you can offer some words of advice.

I have purchased a Powerpro 5500 from Pep Boys. The first one was DOA out of the box. PB exchanged without a problem. It must have been an older model as it had a pair of 23A breakers and a voltmeter on the panel. The exchange has a pair of pushbutton resetable breakers (20A each according to the schematic) and indicator lights instead of a voltmeter.

Fired up the second unit, ran 500W work light, and a small (1 gal) air compressor, no problems. Thinking that if the genset would start and run a 10" miter saw, it would start and run anything in the house. It killed it, no AC, no popped breakers.

Wen sent a new voltage regulator and all seems right. Did not try the miter saw, but was able to run a 1500W heater, the 500W light and start and run the household fridge.

Is it possible that the miter saw was too much of an inductive load? I am concerned because I am hoping to use this to power a gas fired forced air furnace in the house. I think I saw a reference to a "hard start" modification somewhere in this thread, but can't find it now.

Any comments or suggestions would be welcome.

The Caveman

[BlackMax]

Re: New Costco Nikota
I took the end cap off the generator (the duplex outlet and twist lock are actually mounted in the cover with a 120-off-220 switch) and discovered the duplex outlets to be bridged (tabs intact). I crafted an adapter from both plugs to the 4-prong 50 amp plug that I needed, coupling the common leads (white) and bridging the hots (black) at the 50 amp receptacle. I used 2 heavy cords and believe using both outlets, in addition to their being bridged, will manage the current flow through the duplex outlet. The outlet is a heavy duty, polarized, UL approved outlet, but I'll likely need to create a retainer for the plugs as vibrating loose may be a problem. I don't have a way to convey to you the diagram on the genset head, but from the looks of the innards, the coil's outputs are similar to what I've seen here and independently protected by breakers. Until I can compare the diagram to others as to wiring for maximum output, I'll try it out as to handling my a/c unit's drain. It did operate a 2000 watt heater through the outlet I made, whereas the heater's breaker would shut off due to voltage drop when plugged into only one outlet.
As an aside, I noticed the noise commented on here regarding how well the engine is muffled, but the starter recoil area rattles away. As easy as these things start, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to remove the recoil unit cover, assure there was enough fan and put an old fashioned rope pull cup on the crank. Do you think that would be worth a try?

[catalina30]

MrWizard wrote:

catalina30 wrote:

MrWizard wrote:

northshore wrote:
hoping that this isnt too far off topic, but has any one thought about wiring two 1200 watt Champion Generators together, simular to the way Honda does it with their 2000 watt generators

has been brought up, can't be done..the same way..

the honda's are "inverters" powered by a motor the syncing is in the electronics

the ''power pro's- elim-etc.." are standard mechanical generator heads , they would need to be physically aligned on the same shaft to be in phase/synced ( like the dynamo heads in a power dam run by a turbine )

Yes it can be done, but if done wrong you will know it in a big way. you can sync the wave form and then lock the two together ( the two generators will keep each other in sync once they are tied together). it can be done with light bulbs, but I will tell you that without training I would not. this is how in the grid they bring, or at least used to bring, a generator on line. doing it wrong is a sure way of getting everyones attention.

Kevin
The Right Lane

the power station dynamo's you are talking about are usually turbine driven ( by water from a dam or by steam ) this means slippage and possibliy stalling,

the dynamo being brought on line is only putting out a fraction of the power being used, and the EMF force it has to buck against ( slows the rotation / stalls it ) forcing it into mechanical sync with the rest of the power station

this is very difficult to accomplish " if not impossible " with (2) generators that are being directly driven by gas engines and NO belts or clutches

Didn't say it was easy, just said it could be done. I would take it that you have never been able to slow a 5.6hp gas motor down by putting a load on it? that is also the same thing. If one engine was set for a higher RPM it would take a lot of the load, but the generators would still sync after they were linked, gas or steam or turbine. we are just talking about size here.

Kevin

[overhill7]

nigelstubblefield wrote:
Overhill7

I removed the gas cap while the gen was gagging and it didn't help and I don't hear any great woosh when I remove the cap.

championtechonline@gmail is the email address for the Champion
generators. I have a champion 3500 and they have been helpful.

[nigelstubblefie]

Overhill7

I removed the gas cap while the gen was gagging and it didn't help and I don't hear any great woosh when I remove the cap.

[Gtown_Ag]

professor95 wrote:

According to WEN (distributor), the breakers are only rated for 13 amps in each circuit. Would a single 20 or 25 amp breaker protect and allow full power (open the unused side of the twistlok) or should a double 20 or 25 amp ganged breaker be used? Will standard home size breakers fit?

You are right in thinking you will be limited by the capacity of the original breaker. If you want to take advantage of full power available you must replace the breaker with a larger unit. Parallel breakers are not a good idea on 120 circuits UNLESS they are tied together so that if one trips the other will cut off as well.

Finding a replacement breaker of a larger size may be a problem since residential breakers like CH, Square D and Murray will not fit. Most local supply sources do not carry breakers like you need.

An alternative approach is to eliminate the internal breaker for a generator by just wiring around it and add an inexpensive external two circuit breaker box (about $7 to $10) and put a residential breaker in it. Wire a plug to the external breaker box for the generator and put a duplex (or RV) outlet in a box on the other end. As long as you are the only one who uses the generator and remember to use the outboard box, all should be OK.... but if you loan it or sell it, there could be a different story.......

Edit added:

I just had another thought on the breaker size thing.......

If each INDIVIDUAL coil in the stator is protected by a separate 13 amp breaker BEFORE they are tied together, there is no need to change breakers. The current in each individual coil should not exceed 13 amps under this configuration (i.e. 13 in coil A plus 13 in coil B = 26 amps).

But, if the combined output of the parallel windings feeds a single 13 amp breaker, you will be limited to the capacity of that single breaker. In this case, you will need to change the breaker.

I think what I would do if I were converting a series coil 220 volt generator with two 13 amp breakers to a parallel coil 110 volt generator is bring the feed from each individual coil out to the breakers BEFORE combining them. This should solve the problem without any additional expense or hardware.

Professor:

Please provide a diagram and instructions on wiring the parallel breaker. When/Where are the coils combined in the PowerPro 3500? I've done the 220 to 110 modification, but would like to get the full 30 amps from the unit.

Thanks
Curtis

[overhill7]

I think some have defective gas caps and get a vacuum in tank.

[nigelstubblefie]

My brandnew Champion 3500 bogs down randomly under no load and under load. It was a floor model so I didn't assemble it but have tried to check for loose components. I've run it for about 6 hrs so far. Any suggestions?

Also the fuel gage doesn't work, I thought I saw a post on this but haven't been able to find it.

Great thread btw.

[cmg3500]

I noticed on post #1 on this thread they talk about the engines made by Jung mfg.I just looked at my 3500 power pro from pep boys,& the engine is made by Lifan.after a little research,I see that they make all kind of engines,ATV's,motorcycles,etc

[MrWizard]

catalina30 wrote:

MrWizard wrote:

northshore wrote:
hoping that this isnt too far off topic, but has any one thought about wiring two 1200 watt Champion Generators together, simular to the way Honda does it with their 2000 watt generators

has been brought up, can't be done..the same way..

the honda's are "inverters" powered by a motor the syncing is in the electronics

the ''power pro's- elim-etc.." are standard mechanical generator heads , they would need to be physically aligned on the same shaft to be in phase/synced ( like the dynamo heads in a power dam run by a turbine )

Yes it can be done, but if done wrong you will know it in a big way. you can sync the wave form and then lock the two together ( the two generators will keep each other in sync once they are tied together). it can be done with light bulbs, but I will tell you that without training I would not. this is how in the grid they bring, or at least used to bring, a generator on line. doing it wrong is a sure way of getting everyones attention.

Kevin
The Right Lane

the power station dynamo's you are talking about are usually turbine driven ( by water from a dam or by steam ) this means slippage and possibliy stalling,

the dynamo being brought on line is only putting out a fraction of the power being used, and the EMF force it has to buck against ( slows the rotation / stalls it ) forcing it into mechanical sync with the rest of the power station

this is very difficult to accomplish " if not impossible " with (2) generators that are being directly driven by gas engines and NO belts or clutches

[flamingoland]

Because of the flooding here in the NE (sump pump running constantly that can't keep up) and the threat of high winds that would knock out the electric, I finally went to Pep Boys to look at generators (yes I need it for the camper as well, so this was the push necessary).
I ended up purchasing the ProForce Powermate 3150. All the Elim 3500's looked like they'd fallen off the trucks! The boxes were all ratty and taped up.
Haven't started it up yet (too busy wet vac'ing the basement) but after doing a search on the forum, I only saw Coleman PowerPro's listed.
Anyone else have this one? The generator motor is made by Jiangsu. It has 2 household type outlets on it. Couldn't find much on the 'net. Any info appreciated!

[MrWizard]

blazer8 wrote:
I've been running my AC off an adapter through the 110/220 outlet on my 3500 PowerPro without problems. Are you saying that the standard 110 outlet only gets power from one coil while the 110/220 gets power from both? Why can't I run the AC on the regular 110 outlet without rewiring? Is it only getting half the amps?.

yes

it takes both windings to get full/all the power

in the standard factory wired condition , the (2) windings are series

to give 230 volts , to the 230 outlet (3) wires ,
so the 115 recipiticle is only connected to (1) winding

the rewire [ connection changes ] give you 115 full power all the time and NO 230 volts.. ONLY 115