3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Ol-Jerr]

Kamphiker wrote:
Power Pro 3500 the little chinese generator that can!

Well I'm finally able to get back on line. Wilma Hit us HARD here in Broward county Fla.. We lost power at 4:30 AM on monday. I have been running the generator for around 8 - 10 hours a day to keep the House Refer cold and run lights, TV, Satellite, ceiling Fan, My computer and a couple of outside motion sensor security lights.

Due to the lack of Gas in the area (few statikons w/ power and 5 - 6 hour wait with a $ 20.00 limit) I am limiting the amount we run the Generator.



After reading the material posted by the professor I went to pep boys and bought one of the power-pro generators. I didn’t mess with the internal wiring just looked at the diagram and made two separate 110 V 15 amp circuits. I ran my fridge on one line and the freezer from the other. It worked swell during Wilma who blew through Fort Myers Monday morning. We were out of electricity five days and I ran the unit over twelve hours each day. We watched TV had lights at night as well as fans. The unit used five gallons of gas to operate the unit for two days. The unit is noisy but it did better than what I could hope for. It will get rest until another hurricane decides to blow into town. I don’t have an RV anymore but still enjoy reading all the adventures you guys are having.

[Bahamaboy]

Thanks Kevin

I will give it a try when the gen cools off but i thought the engine speed only controlled the cycles not the voltage?

Bahamaboy

[catalina30]

Bahamaboy wrote:
I have also beenhit hard with Welma and have been running my Elm3000 as i have in the past for my fridge a few lights and TV but just noticed today that the output voltage has droped to almost 100VAC and to my way of thinking i am just ovet 50% load is this common i never noticed the low voltage before?? Is there a way to increase the voltage to about 115VAC??

THanks for any help

Bahamaboy

Yes, there is a screw on top of the engine that has a spring attatched to the throttle, bring the RPM up so as to get your 115v. I would like to remind you before you do this that some have had problems with the capacitor, but as I read it they lost all power when it failed. also you might use the clock trick to make sure the cycle of 60 is still good. My guess is the adjustment locknut is loose and backed off.

Kevin
The Right Lane

[Bahamaboy]

I have also beenhit hard with Welma and have been running my Elm3000 as i have in the past for my fridge a few lights and TV but just noticed today that the output voltage has droped to almost 100VAC and to my way of thinking i am just ovet 50% load is this common i never noticed the low voltage before?? Is there a way to increase the voltage to about 115VAC??

THanks for any help

Bahamaboy

[MrWizard]

The Little Generators That Can Do

[Kamphiker]

Power Pro 3500 the little chinese generator that can!

Well I'm finally able to get back on line. Wilma Hit us HARD here in Broward county Fla.. We lost power at 4:30 AM on monday. I have been running the generator for around 8 - 10 hours a day to keep the House Refer cold and run lights, TV, Satellite, ceiling Fan, My computer and a couple of outside motion sensor security lights.

Due to the lack of Gas in the area (few statikons w/ power and 5 - 6 hour wait with a $ 20.00 limit) I am limiting the amount we run the Generator.

I did the re-wire since Katrina and so far the re-wire is nite and day different than the stock configuration. I have not tripped the breaker once.

My next door neighbor went to Home Depot and got a power 5500 generator w/ a Briggs 10 HP engine, when he got it home I helped him get it started. I noticed oil running out on the ground and shut down the engine. Upon inspection I found a flaw in the casting and a small hole letting out the oil. Since The Neighbor is with the Homeland security force, the local Home Depot had set a side 20 of these Generators for the local force, The neighbor was able to take it back and get the last one still on hold. Come to find out This Home Depot Store was having a lot of returns from the last shipment (20 palolets w/8 Gens per pallet) with the same problems.

I could sell my Power Pro for more than I paid for it in a hartbeat with our current situation.

Florida Power & light is reporting that it may take until November 22 to get everyone back on line here in south Florida.

Atleast the weather is mild and the nites cool so we can sleep without the need of A/C, unlike after Katrina. With Katrina we lost power for 4 days, So far that the same for Wilma.

[radaglast]

professor95,
Blackmax is exactly right. I too have bought the new Nikota from Costco and it is even more than I expected. It seems there are 2 breakers of 13 amps each, but they are bridged so you get full power from either recepticle. I had 30 amps going through the recepticles and the genny didn't blink. Whoever designed this new Nikota knew what he was doing. I'm in Palm Beach County, Florida and we lost our electric service when Wilma blew in. We were out 3 days (very, very lucky it was only 3 days) and there are over 1/2 million people in Palm Beach County who are still out and some will be out till Nov. 22nd. The Nikota ran flawlessly for 3 days. All I had to do was change the oil. It has a four gallon tank and it was getting about 10 hours at full load. This generator is a great value and I highly recommend it. Besides, you can't go wrong at $279.99 at Costco. And you get a 1 year warranty to boot.
Rad...

[Clark_W__Griswo]

XR4rider wrote:
Hi- I am looking for Professor95's opinion (although anyone's opinion would be greatly appreciated)

I have read this forum back to front and front to back. I am actually a litte dizzy as a result. So, after all the reading,
I have come to the conclusion that i would like to find a generator that I can pretty much just plug and play. No wiring or rewiring. I have a 21' toyhualer that I usually keep in the desert all season with full hookups. About 2 or 3 times a year I take the trailer places where there are no hookups. So I am not looking for a full time RV generator, just occasional use. I would like to be able to run my AC and microwave(not necessarily at the same time) and a few lights at night.

From the reading, I get the impression the ELM3000 would be okay if I just plugged my trailer in (with the adapter) and didn't re-wire anything. Is that a good assumption. Do you have any advice for my situation.

Thanks for your time

That's exactly how I am using mine and it works great.

[feistycapn]

Google to the rescue. I searched on "CPVC glass transition temperature" and got this

a short clip says:

"Heat Resistance

CPVC can withstand corrosive water at temperatures 40C to 50C greater than PVC, contributing to its popularity as a material for water piping systems in residential as well as commercial construction."

also "CPVC is ideally suited for self-supporting constructions where temperatures up to 200°F (93°C) are present"

Glass transition temperature is the point when plactic "noodles" to use the Professor's term 🙂 So CPVC is at least 70deg F. better than PVC. Is that good enough? Don't know.

[professor95]

Does anyone know what the exhaust temp is coming out of the muffler? I was wondering if i could use CPVC pipe to extend the exhaust out of an enclosure?

Actually, that is a good question. I know from experience that the exhaust from the muffler on an Onan generator installed in a MH will soften a vertical length of 1-1/4" schedule 40 PVC enough to place it into the noodle class after about 30 minutes. But, CPVC is made from a different grade of plastic that is designed to remain stable at higher temperatures. Nominally, CPVC is rated for 100 psi at 180 F and I "believe" it is good for up to 400 F before it looses its rigidity at lower pressures (I wish I could find where I "think" I read that).

Thus, it is possible that schedule 40 CPVC pipe with an inside diameter of 1-1/4" to 2" might very well be able to withstand the temperatures of the gasses exiting one of the smaller Chinese generators.

Proof (or disproof) of this might be a good project for a curious soul who has a few bucks to invest at Lowe's or Home Depot. Or, perhaps, someone on the list who has more experience with CPVC would like to make a contribution?

[presp]

PatJ & MrWizard,
Thank you. I stand corrected.
(a carry over from my 3 phase generator experiences)

Pres

[MrWizard]

PatJ wrote:

presp wrote:

...the generator 220v is incompatible with "household" 220v.
This is due to the phasing difference.
Household 220v is at 120 degree phase shift. Generator 220v is at 180 degree phase shift.
Resistance appliances, like a water heater, will probably work ok.
However, a 220v electric motor that is phase sensitive (e.g. capacitor start) can have trouble.

Easiest solution is DO NOT run 220v anything with it.
Only use 120v unless you are willing to ensure phase shift compatability.

Of course, the above is somewhat academic if you are only running 120v.
Presp

A normal single phase residential service is 180 degree, at least around here, just like the generators. Industrial three phase delta or Y are 120 out of phase, but at least in my corner of the US, most homes have a single phase service using a 240V center-tapped transformer. That makes 180 degrees.

My Champion runs my 240v air compressor and 1 HP 240v well pumps without problems. Both are single phase 240V motors with capacitor start.

PatJ

your are absolutley correct

and this false impression has come up before.

[PatJ]

presp wrote:

...the generator 220v is incompatible with "household" 220v.
This is due to the phasing difference.
Household 220v is at 120 degree phase shift. Generator 220v is at 180 degree phase shift.
Resistance appliances, like a water heater, will probably work ok.
However, a 220v electric motor that is phase sensitive (e.g. capacitor start) can have trouble.

Easiest solution is DO NOT run 220v anything with it.
Only use 120v unless you are willing to ensure phase shift compatability.

Of course, the above is somewhat academic if you are only running 120v.
Presp

A normal single phase residential service is 180 degree, at least around here, just like the generators. Industrial three phase delta or Y are 120 out of phase, but at least in my corner of the US, most homes have a single phase service using a 240V center-tapped transformer. That makes 180 degrees.

My Champion runs my 240v air compressor and 1 HP 240v well pumps without problems. Both are single phase 240V motors with capacitor start.

[regal5575]

Bahamaboy wrote:
Thanks for the info i was afraid it would melt the CPVC guess i will have to use metal conduit.

I would never run the unit inside my house or eeven close but have it in a sound enclosure and was hoping to pump the heat out of the box to help keep the unit cooler the enclosure/Generator is 40 feet away from my house

I was talking to a friend awhile back and he said that during the great Northeastern blackout a couple of years ago he put his generator out the back door of his garage (1st story) and the exhaust gasses rose up the wall of the house and into the open (2nd story) bedroom window. Fortunately they recognized the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning.
I don't for a moment doubt is story, but I didn't think CO was lighter than air, but maybe heated exhaust gas is hot enough to rise and enter the cross ventilation air flow into the house.

While I'm at it, there was the story in the newspaper about CO deaths from running a generator in a garage with the garage door open about a foot or so. The problem is the wind was blowing towards the garage door and created positive air pressure in the garage. The other fatal mistake was running the power output extension cords from the generator into the house through a passage door from the garage and leaving the door ajar to accommodate the cords.

I guess the moral of the story is you must careful where you locate the generator and also surrounding environmental conditions.

[inlineskater]

Hi All,

I have the ELM3000 and am very happy with it. I was wondering what the general consensus was on which spare parts are best to purchase from eliminatorusa? Is the capacitor likely to fail after a certain amount of time? One person mentioned that prev and I think the 120/220v switch. Any recomendations on what spares to buy while also trying to keep cost low and not have a spare of everything? I'm looking to just get spare parts for things that are likely to wear out in the generator from use and I might have a hard time finding later on (like that capacitor..it's seems I've never seen one like that before...the switch is easy enough to find a generic replacement for.)

Thanks for any ideas/help.