3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[2003Bigsilverad]

Hi I went to Big Lots yesterday and they have a 3500 max 3000 watt generator on sale for $240.00 and I thought it looked nice. it only has 1 20 amp duplex and said it was rated at 70 dbs. just wondering what everyones thoughts are on this. oh it was a power craft pro.

[Old___Slow]

I wish for OP to ask some questions of our Prof. :@

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

O&S wrote:
Professor95:

When first I arrived at '3000w Chinese GensetS info' I felt all fuzzy and warm. This thread has all the right stuff I'm looking to find. I was so excited. Well since retro is the buzz word around these parts, here is some 'retrospective' Age brings lot's of things. Hopefully some wisdom but with it comes fear. Fear the worst ya know. So one day I'm up, next day down. Over amped. Under amped. Might burn finders when touching MH. Might loose all the MH electrical equipment. Might have a bonfire Winnebago. Might disturb neighbor with noise from genny. Might have, might happen. I was almost ready to buy a tent and a sack of spuds, ask DW to find someone to carry us to the hills. Now you tell me, don't worry, percentages are in your favor, you and DW will be just fine. Use MH to find many happy trails and be happy. Ok, I will.

No another note. This thread has proved to be more fun than TV- Television. And please Prof, let us debate Ford vs Chevy.

Floyd

I guess that is why they say "Ignorance is Bliss." If you don't know anything, you won't know what to worry about.

Bliss, with all the knowledge from '3000w Chinses Gensets info':h

Oh, Prof, just enjoy the ride, we are not all bad boys all the time.

[professor95]

O&S wrote:
Professor95:

When first I arrived at '3000w Chinese GensetS info' I felt all fuzzy and warm. This thread has all the right stuff I'm looking to find. I was so excited. Well since retro is the buzz word around these parts, here is some 'retrospective' Age brings lot's of things. Hopefully some wisdom but with it comes fear. Fear the worst ya know. So one day I'm up, next day down. Over amped. Under amped. Might burn finders when touching MH. Might loose all the MH electrical equipment. Might have a bonfire Winnebago. Might disturb neighbor with noise from genny. Might have, might happen. I was almost ready to buy a tent and a sack of spuds, ask DW to find someone to carry us to the hills. Now you tell me, don't worry, percentages are in your favor, you and DW will be just fine. Use MH to find many happy trails and be happy. Ok, I will.

No another note. This thread has proved to be more fun than TV- Television. And please Prof, let us debate Ford vs Chevy.

Floyd

I guess that is why they say "Ignorance is Bliss." If you don't know anything, you won't know what to worry about.

[Old___Slow]

Professor95:

When first I arrived at '3000w Chinese GensetS info' I felt all fuzzy and warm. This thread has all the right stuff I'm looking to find. I was so excited. Well since retro is the buzz word around these parts, here is some 'retrospective' Age brings lot's of things. Hopefully some wisdom but with it comes fear. Fear the worst ya know. So one day I'm up, next day down. Over amped. Under amped. Might burn finders when touching MH. Might loose all the MH electrical equipment. Might have a bonfire Winnebago. Might disturb neighbor with noise from genny. Might have, might happen. I was almost ready to buy a tent and a sack of spuds, ask DW to find someone to carry us to the hills. Now you tell me, don't worry, percentages are in your favor, you and DW will be just fine. Use MH to find many happy trails and be happy. Ok, I will.

No another note. This thread has proved to be more fun than TV- Television. And please Prof, let us debate Ford vs Chevy.:B

Floyd

[ol_Bombero-JC]

PF&PM wrote:
I have no idea if this has been brought up or not but I don't think it is common knowledge that quite a few Chinese "companies" are arms of the Government or are owned directly by the government. Very few compaies in China are private enterprise and even if they are they would only exist with help from "a friend" within...

And the point is . . . . . . ???

[Old___Slow]

We buy Chinese products and they buy our 'Bonds'. and that's the way it is..........as the old news caster used to say.

Will they own us someday, well not me, I'm amovin' on one of these days.:B

[professor95]

PF&PM wrote:
I have no idea if this has been brought up or not but I don't think it is common knowledge that quite a few Chinese "companies" are arms of the Government or are owned directly by the government. Very few compaies in China are private enterprise and even if they are they would only exist with help from "a friend" within...

Yep. China is a Communist country. While what you pointed out is still prevalent, times are a'changing in China and something resembling free enterprise is growing. Even Communist countries need outside $$$$$$ to keep their economy functional.

Personally, I would prefer NOT to buy Chinese products. But then I probably wouldn't have any tools, appliances, clothes or books to read.

[professor95]

N9WOS wrote:
Lets get back to basics.
Don’t try to over engineer things.

Why do you need a latching switch?

Just use a SPST toggle switch at the control position that turns the relay coil on, or off.

And don’t worry about 12V power to the coil being interrupted. If the 12V fails, then you got a short, or open that you need to worry about before you worry about running anything.

We ain’t building a multibillion dollar power control room to the NASA control center that has to stay in it’s last operating mode if control is severed!

As I always say, Keep It Simple Stupid

Now I could use a few of those 807’s

You know what, Bennett? I bet you are one of those guys who walk around looking for campfires to pour water on. 😉

Rube Goldberg is one of my mentors.

73
WB4BZX

[PF_PM]

I have no idea if this has been brought up or not but I don't think it is common knowledge that quite a few Chinese "companies" are arms of the Government or are owned directly by the government. Very few compaies in China are private enterprise and even if they are they would only exist with help from "a friend" within...

[professor95]

Mr. Wizard wrote:
toprudder wrote:


professor95 wrote:

...Also keep in mind 2500 watts from an inverter translates to 25,000+ watts (200+ amps) from your battery(s)....

Huh??? What happened to "power can neither be created nor destroyed"??


TYPO, he just put in an extra ZER0 , in the watts, prbability getting bleary eyed from this forum

Thanks for coming to my defense. But, truthfully, it was more of a brain fart than a typing error. It sometimes happens.............

[MrWizard]

toprudder wrote:

professor95 wrote:
...Also keep in mind 2500 watts from an inverter translates to 25,000+ watts (200+ amps) from your battery(s)....

Huh??? What happened to "power can neither be created nor destroyed"?? 🙂

TYPO, he just put in an extra ZER0 , in the watts, prbability getting bleary eyed from this forum

[bobandcat]

Professor95,

Thanks for your input. I think that you fingered an extra zero when you where converting watts from AC to DC. I will check the inverter for out of sync outlets. Hopefully, it will be one large inverter and not 2 smaller ones combined.

I liked your electro-mechanical transfer switch, but I plan on staying with my 4PDT ON/OFF/ON toggle switch for the following reasons.
1. It not only will function as a transfer switch, but also, an OFF switch for 120v output.
2. It’s rated at 20 amps, which exceeds the generator current output per winding as well as the matching the max current from the inverter.
3. It is basically the same toggle that the C46540 uses to change between 120v and 240v.
4. It fills a hole in my Champion’s control panel and only costs $10.

Regarding the inverter, they are rated just like generators. Beware of the marketing folks! The Cobra boldly states “2500 watts continuous” on its case. However, in the owner’s manual, it says “2500watts for one hour”.

I don’t plan on using anywhere near its max rating. I just want it to be able to run my microwave and toaster for about 5 minutes at a time at about 1500watts. Longer time based usage will be for the television and DVD player at about 300-400watts. My inverter choice was dictated by an Ebay auction. I also know that at 2000 watts, it will drain a 200 amp-hour battery in about an hour. Its efficiency rating is 83% at 2500 watts.

One feature that I plan on using with this inverter is its remote on/off capability. I can leave the transfer toggle in the inverter mode and operate it from inside of the 5ver when I need it, turning it off to save the battery charge when not using AC power.

[blkfe]

N9WOS wrote:
:E

Something tells me that it may have been just a little simpler to use a 12V DPDT relay. :B

Good or bad...it's a frame of mind really....
My friends used make fun of my automated pneumatic multi-can beer can crusher......
that used to hang on the wall of my shop.
They would point out that a large hammer does just as good as job, which for the most part was true.
BUT NOT NEAR AS FUN!!!!!!
Brad

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
...Also keep in mind 2500 watts from an inverter translates to 25,000+ watts (200+ amps) from your battery(s)....

Huh??? What happened to "power can niether be created nor destroyed"?? 🙂