3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

roadyacht wrote:
Yup
Did mine with a kit from Indy.,I believe, about 3-4 years ago, when I first saw those Honda clone gensets at Costco...manual crossover switch,and my home is covered in event of prolonged power outages.

FYI - This thread is full of info on LPG conversion for generator engines. Many of these conversion methods are completely owner built - with the exception of the low pressure Garretson type demand regulator.

Take a few minutes to cruise back no more than six months for a boatload of LPG conversion postings.

I share this because the size of this thread is huge, going back over 4 years with something like 7,400+ postings. Thus, LPG conversion is not a new topic and there are many who visit this forum on a regular basis that are extremely knowledgeable on the subject.

Of course, no one expects new contributors to know all of this or take the time to research what has been done in the past. My sharing is to only alert you that there is a tremendous amount of LPG conversion information all ready posted on this thread for newcomers who may interested.

[roadyacht]

Yup
Did mine with a kit from Indy.,I believe, about 3-4 years ago, when I first saw those Honda clone gensets at Costco...manual crossover switch,and my home is covered in event of prolonged power outages.

[RTompkins3]

OT warning/
roadyacht - if you are interested in automotive propane conversion - GOOGLE "propane auto conversion" and you'll get a couple of hits - about 1.8 million. It does appear as most of them are Canadian or European, though.
/OT Warning.

[gasser9]

carb & turbo systems, acme carburation, power systems(or something like that) along with several others can fix you up with lp or nat gas systems. They can fix you up for anything from a 3600 cubic INCH power unit to a 40 cubic CENTIMETER Honda

[roadyacht]

You got it right.

Another little ditty..... Kits to convert gasoline autos to LPG are virtually non-existent commercially.

Why?


How about this? refitting diesel locomotives to use lpg,and gas turbines?
And how about sterling engine kits for generators?
I firmly believe that the possibility of relatively inexpensive power generation is just outside normal problem solving.
Oh, and fossil fuels? There are moons orbiting planets,that seem to be made of hydrocarbon chains,with fuel grade rains...

[professor95]

roadyacht wrote:
Hmmm. I guess if you're not going for the EPA cert.,just upgrading your genset to use whatever fuel you encounter at a given location, then the conversion kit makes the most sense. If,on the other hand,you are going into the conversion business,you may indeed need a cert. In that light,the tri-fuel modification makes a lot of sense, IMHO.

You got it right.

Another little ditty..... Kits to convert gasoline autos to LPG are virtually non-existent commercially.

Why?

They must be EPA certified. But, getting certification can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and the requirements are ridiculously high – much higher than a gasoline engine.

So, propane conversions of anything over 50 hp just do not happen.

Guess I had better let this LPG/EPA stuff go. It is really not all that relevant to our topic of 3,000 Watt Chinese Generator’s. But, it is one of those things that get me riled up because I believe it is done to protect a “special interest” rather than us.

[Old___Slow]

jimmyfred wrote:
..........The weight difference between the 6.5 Hp Champion 3.5kw with the 30 amp RV plug and this Lp ginset is the Lp model engine is much heavier ! The 333 cc displacement is rated at either 11 or 13 Hp for Honda models . 170 Lbs. for the Lp Champion vs 105 for the 3.5kw RV model . , jf

FWIW, my Champion C46540 converted to LPG, 88lbs. I removed the fuel tank. Much safer to operate in this hot Texas weather. Don't know for sure the max output but it will run a 1500w heater on high, at the same time can run the 12a r/saw. Pretty sure I would have no problem to start and run a 13,500 A/C in HOT Texas. I Followed Professor's instructions for the LP conversion, got a new over the counter s/plug and away she goes. OH, BTW, also added Electric Start by following the Prof'. Nice.

Floyd


PS

Cabela's seem to have sold a large number of the Champion. Just looked on their website and found the C46540 now @ 399 ~ also noticed they have 122 reviews of this gen. Wow. No [COLOR=]GREEN gens showing.

[roadyacht]

Hmmm. I guess if you're not going for the EPA cert.,just upgrading your genset to use whatever fuel you encounter at a given location, then the conversion kit makes the most sense. If,on the other hand,you are going into the conversion business,you may indeed need a cert. In that light,the tri-fuel modification makes a lot of sense, IMHO.

[professor95]

jimmyfred wrote:
..........The weight difference between the 6.5 Hp Champion 3.5kw with the 30 amp RV plug and this Lp ginset is the Lp model engine is much heavier ! The 333 cc displacement is rated at either 11 or 13 Hp for Honda models . 170 Lbs. for the Lp Champion vs 105 for the 3.5kw RV model . , jf

This info may sound crazy, but then again it it part of a government regulation and as such does not have to come under the category of "common sense".

EPA and CARB have an entirely different set of standards for emissions from a gasoline fueled engine generator and a LPG fueled engine generator. Eventhough a gasoline engine generator converted to LPG (as many of us have done on our units) is considered to be much cleaner than gasoline, it will not meet CARB nor EPA emissions standards required for new factory built LPG engine fueled generators.

In order to meet the much higher and more stringent emission standards for use of LPG, the cylinder head, intake, combustion chamber, valve size, spark plug, camshaft and ignition timing must all be altered. The changes made to the basic gasoline engine to allow LPG usage for factory models results in a decrease in horse power. To make up the difference, a larger displacement engine block is used.

What I have never understood about this emissions and efficiency ruling logic is how are you creating lower emissions for a stated displacement/fuel engine when you must use a larger and less fuel efficient engine that ultimately produces the same amount of CO2 per power unit? :S

But, like oxgenated gas that gives less miles per gallon than unoxgenated, requiring more fuel to be burned to get an equivalent amount of BTU energy release that results in equal emissions; expending 1.5 units of petro based energy to produce 1.0 unit of alcohol spposedly to save petro energy; and the latest from CARB to outlaw black cars in CA while requiring all others to have reflective paints that contain toxic copper and cadium metals so air conditioners can be smaller - thus saving an average of eight gallons of gas and 250# of C02 emissions per year. :h

[jimmyfred]

..........The weight difference between the 6.5 Hp Champion 3.5kw with the 30 amp RV plug and this Lp ginset is the Lp model engine is much heavier ! The 333 cc displacement is rated at either 11 or 13 Hp for Honda models . 170 Lbs. for the Lp Champion vs 105 for the 3.5kw RV model . , jf

[roadyacht]

Home Depot carries the Champion 3500 Watt LPG Generator for $600, it's rated at 68 decibels and weighs in at 180 pounds.

there is an outfit that sold me a conversion kit;three way,gasoline(which came with my generator)LPG, and natural gas.It was about $180, if I remember right, and it was a breeze to install. That is my back-up gen set at home, and it fired right up on the 20#er from my BBQ, and ran all the power tools I could plug into the 3000W genset from Costco (mfd in china, of course)
I don't remember the company name, but you could sure find it easy enough.
Don't be afraid to install it, it is easier than a window's program..

[roadyacht]

hard start device all you could want to knowhttp://www.supco.com/images/pdfs/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20EClassBooklet.pdf

The company is named SUPCO.
You can obtain their products at almost all HVAC parts distributors,and some appliance repair part outlets as well.
The installation instructions are easy,and printed right on the package.
The sizes are right on the package as well, and they specify BTU,and voltage.
If you read the PDF that I have linked, you will see that this is exactly what you need, and as long as you have voltage anywhere near the spec, you should have the A/C start.
Let us know.

[pritch272]

In response to Floyd's post earlier on the Green Champion... green obviously relating to the color and not necessarily eco friendly?

Home Depot carries the Champion 3500 Watt LPG Generator for $600, it's rated at 68 decibels and weighs in at 180 pounds.

Here it is at CPE.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Hmmmmmm - seems "roadyacht" was just passin' thru!

~

[professor95]

roadyacht wrote:

professor95 wrote:
An "old trick" with a RV A/C is to start the fan motor on low first and let it run a minute or so. Then, turn up the temperature to allow the compressor motor to start. This breaks the start load into two stages. Some RV A/C units do this automatically (compressor delay built in).

Prof.,
I am an HVAC/R,electrician,(mechanical services)Tech, and camper.
You may want to investigate a "hard start kit", it is a start/run booster capacitor;they come in various sizes,have a relay for locked rotor conditions,and are sold at any HVAC/R outlet under various brand names (Supco is one),and they eliminate light dimming in residences as well.
We in the trades use them on many applications where hard start is encountered for any reason other than flooded heads(Liquid returned instead of saturated vapor).

RoadYacht

"connect the ground first"

Thanks for the reply. Somewhere back in the archives we explored the hard start kits extensively. Of course, that was a year or more ago and we have a lot of new contributors and readers. Mr. Wizard has worked with these extensively.

BTW - I have a Universal CFC certification and a Master Electrician license too - and love to camp as well. We might even be able to talk the same language!

Thanks for adding info about the hard start kits. Perhaps you would give more info as to which ones to use for RV air conditioners and how to connect? There are a lot of readers who never saw the older postings on this thread who would appreciate knowing which makes, model numbers and sources are good. Of course, all of this ties back to 3,000 Watt Chinese Generator Info because most folks want to know what to do when the genny will not start the A/C.