3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Robby9]

tvman44 wrote:
Is that the little screen bolted on to the muffler outlet?

Yes. They will catch debris coming out of the exhaust and need to be brushed off every once in a while.

[tvman44]

Is that the little screen bolted on to the muffler outlet?

[Cox89XJ]

Update, I took it to the shop up the road and it took the guy every bit of 10 minutes to fix it. It was the spark arrester stopped up.

[professor95]

Cox89XJ wrote:
Thanks professor, I think your right on the compression release.
I had an old International lawn mower with a 14hp Koler engine. That is the last engine I’ve rebuilt. After reassembly it would not run good. On the Koler I had to completely disassemble the motor to replace the governor. Is the compression release in the head or does the motor have to be completely disassembled?

The motor has to be completely disassembled. The release is on the camshaft. The exhaust valve is held open a little bit when you try to start the engine, as the engine picks up speed the centrifugal force on the counter weight pulls the release out of the way and the exhaust valve works normally.

It is possible for the mechanism to get stuck and not release as engine speed increases. You said you had electric start - if you put a compression tester meter into the spark plug hole and crank the engine for about 30 seconds you should reach 75 psi. If the thing is stuck, you will only get a reading of around 20 psi.

This is a photo of the mechanism on the camshaft. The blue arrow shows the centrifugal counter weight. You can see the spring in the background that pulls the compression release up.

The second photo with the blue arrow shows how the mechanism lifts the cam tappet to crack the exhaust valve. As engine speed increases the centrifugal force throws the counter weight outward and overcomes the tension of the spring.

I would just remove the assembly from the camshaft or grind/cut off the lifter tab rather than try to replace it. It will be a little harder to pull start but we have been doing that for decades on other engines.

If you decide to open it up you will probably need a new side case gasket. The thickness of the gasket is critical to the crank seal. If you try to replace the gasket with RTV the crank seal will be too tight on the crankshaft. The clue for this condition is you will not be able to turn the engine over by hand. An open side case is shown in the third photo.

[Cox89XJ]

Thanks professor, I think your right on the compression release.
I had an old International lawn mower with a 14hp Koler engine. That is the last engine I’ve rebuilt. After reassembly it would not run good. On the Koler I had to completely disassemble the motor to replace the governor. Is the compression release in the head or does the motor have to be completely disassembled?

[professor95]

Cox89XJ wrote:
professor,
Tractor Supply has the Champion on sale for $279.99. Will the electric start from this chinese clone work on the Champion and how much trouble would that be?
Edit: spelling, but I always did pretty good in schooool.
There is a small engine repair shop just up the road from me, but I’m skepticle of wasting any more money on this thing.

It is beginning to sound more and more like the compression release that is inside the engine crankcase is stuck and holding the exhaust valve open rather than releasing it as the engine comes up to speed. Unfortunately, the only way you can fix that is to crack the crankcase.

Virtually all of the 196 to 208 cc engines on the Chinese generators are Honda GX-200 clones. The electric start should move to the Champion from TSC with no problems. Somewhere back in this thread I posted step-by-step instructions with photos on an electric start conversion. The only major step is drilling one hole for the starter mount and taping it for a bolt.

If you decided to open the case on your current generator I also posted photos and instructions somewhere back in this thread. I just don't remember what page or when. Maybe someone has them bookmarked?

The alternator head should also fit the Champion (should you ever need to swap it out).

I'm with Brad - if you want to throw it in the junk pile I would like to follow you so I can grab it. Way too many good parts even if the engine will not start.

Happy New Year!

[blkfe]

jlaustin wrote:

professor95 wrote:
... Throwing it in the junk yard would be easy, but it would be a mark of defeat ...

Hey, Professor, don't talk him out of tossing it in the junkyard - I was going to find out how close he is to me in Tennessee and follow him to the junkyard!:B You know how I love a challenge! HAHA!

Regards,

John

lol............

[jlaustin]

professor95 wrote:
... Throwing it in the junk yard would be easy, but it would be a mark of defeat ...

Hey, Professor, don't talk him out of tossing it in the junkyard - I was going to find out how close he is to me in Tennessee and follow him to the junkyard!:B You know how I love a challenge! HAHA!

Regards,

John

[Cox89XJ]

professor, I tried the starting spay and also tried the low oil ground out circuit again. Still the same thing. This unit has electric start and when I remove and ground the spark plug, it appears to be getting good spark. This is such a shame. I was going to actually use it instead of playing with it. Then I was going to change the oil for the first time. It has less the five hours on it.
Tractor Supply has the Champion on sale for $279.99. Will the electric start from this chinese clone work on the Champion and how much trouble would that be?
Edit: spelling, but I always did pretty good in schooool.
There is a small engine repair shop just up the road from me, but I’m skepticle of wasting any more money on this thing.

[professor95]

Cox89XJ wrote:

Update:
The new carb did not fix it. It does the same thing. Will start and only run a few rough seconds and die. Restart and does the same. Acts as though it runs out of gas, it's getting plenty of gas to the carb, replaced spark plug, Any suggestions?

Fixing a problem like this online is indeed a problem. I can tell you what I would do if the generator engine was behaving as you describe.

1. Disconnect the fuel line and turn on the petcock. There should be a steady flow of fuel. If it dribbles take the petcock out of the gas tank and clean the internal screen.

2. Disconnect the yellow wire coming out of the engine block. This is your low oil shutdown. It is possible that the float is sticking and cutting off your ignition.

3. I have experienced bad ignition coils. Yours could be faulty. I realize that you are Easter Egg Hunting by buying new parts to see if they solve the problem. Sooner or later you may discover the problem if you throw enough parts at it.

For 2 and 3 I would at least suggest removing the plug, grounding the shell to the engine and yanking the starter rope. You should have a consistent visible yellow or blue spark. If you do, forget the coil idea.

4. To rule out fuel or intake problems you can spray starting fluid into the carburetor by removing the air filter. Of course, put the nuts back on the studs after taking the filter off so the carburetor is well seated. You can also try feeding propane into the engine at the same point from an UNLIT standard propane torch. If starting fluid allows the engine to run BETTER, even for a short time, you still have intake and/or fuel problems. This is where I would become concerned about the mechanism inside the crankcase that works as a compression release.

I can LOAN you a coil. Postage both ways would cost you about $10 Priority Mail. Note LOAN - I DO NOT sell parts. Send a private e-mail if needed.

Hey, look at this thing as a challenge 🙂 You don't want a Chinese Honda engine clone to beat you - do you? Throwing it in the junk yard would be easy, but it would be a mark of defeat. I personally hate for ANY machine to get the best of me. :B

[RTompkins3]

Could there be an air leak in the intake manifold (such as it is)? Maybe where it meets the cylinder?

[Cox89XJ]

Cox89XJ wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
sounds like a problem with the speed.governor & linkage
change the oil, run it a.couple hrs with no load it might loosen up,
spray all the throttle linkage and governor with a good penetrating "OIL" like Kroil, Pbs blaster, jb80 etc.

I've checked most of that, I just ordered a carburetor online for approx. $35 dollars, hope that fixes it. If it doesn it's going to the junk yard.

Update:
The new carb did not fix it. It does the same thing. Will start and only run a few rough seconds and die. Restart and does the same. Acts as though it runs out of gas, it's getting plenty of gas to the carb, replaced spark plug, Any suggestions?

[Old___Slow]

Soichiro Honda~1906/1991 Knockoff Honda 1991~

I guess the name will never die.

Merry CHRISTmas:D

[jlaustin]

What I DID'T get for Christmas this year!

Well, I rushed to look under the tree and here's what I did not find:

(1) A $199/5-yr warranty tri-fuel remote start 3500w inverter generator that weighs 25 lbs. and is so quiet it needs a pilot light so you can tell if it's running.

(2) A sound cloaking device that lets me aim an invisible beam at a camping neighbor's generator to make it silent.

(3) If (2) was not available/out of stock, then I would have settled for yet another invisible ray gun that lets me aim at the camping neighbor's generator and simply fry it!

(4) A year-long internet security filter that would guarantee no ya-hoo would skip the first 900 pages of the "3000w Chineses Genset Info" thread and try to be really helpful by posting and letting the rest of know that "we should get a Honda!":S

Merry Christmas, y'all 😉

Regards,

John

[Skibane]

jlaustin wrote:

RDMueller wrote:

If you want to take the lazy way out, you can purchase a "SuperGen tent" here. Also, the Professor has an extensive video review of this product a ways back in the thread, too.

Here's a link to the page with Prof's review.