Biggest converter for Honda 2000

[landyacht318]

I am trying to assist someone else.

They are getting a Honda 2000 watt generator.

What is the biggest converter that it will be able to handle when charging 3 pair of depleted GC 6v batteries, lets assume 1500 feet above sea level?

Thanks

[time2roll]

Xantrex white paper on Power Factor

[bukzin]

BFL13 wrote:
I think Fisherguy runs his PD9280 (non-PF corrected) with his. Probably can run the PF corrected PowerMax 100amper or WFCO 68100.

For near max load with a cold gen I recommend leaving Eco off at first, then turn Eco on a few minutes later.

What is PF corrected?

Thx

[BFL13]

This is with a Honda 3000, but it shows how you can get more charging amps using a PF corrected charger. (from a post in September)

The Honda can do a max of 130a worth of non-PF corrected Vectors before popping its breaker. I also have the PowerMax 100 amper which is PF corrected

---tried how many Vector amps I could run as well as the 100amper. It did 50a of Vectors and one more amp (seemed like) popped the Honda. I also have the rig's shore power on the Honda but with nothing much on. I turned on the laptop with that 150a on there and the Honda popped.

So that means I think that the Vectors have a power factor of 0.8

This might be all wrong, but where, of that 130 all Vector, now there is 50, so 80 more Vector is the same as 100 more PF corrected PM, so to me that means 100=80. ???? That would compare with the reported 0.7 PF of a typical converter.

I figured after the amps had tapered on the 100amper, I could add more Vector, but not amp for amp due to the PF on the Vectors. (a 40 and a 35)

I was able to do this:

Start: 100 PM, 40a VEC, 10a Vec
Then: 85a PM, 40a VEC, 20a Vec
Then: 65a PM, 40a Vec, 35a Vec

[MM49]

ktmrfs wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Hi ktmrfs,

When I wrote PD they told me all their units are a power factor of 0.7. So the 1300 watts becomes about 1857 va. Not pretty with a genny rated for 1600 va. Then take it up above sea level. If the battery bank is truly flat with six six volts it is not going to be reliable.

The only reason it would work is if the pd doesn't zip up to full output i.e. with sagging voltage. I have seen that in person with the 40 amp pd in the RV I call home probably because the maker skimped on the wire size from the converter to the battery bank.

The person might consider solar?

ktmrfs wrote:

True, the PD80 may draw about 1300 watts, but closer to 1600-1700 VA, so it's marginal on a honda 2000, right at it's continous rating. Like so many RV appliances, actual current draw is more than the "watts" rating indicates.

The PD60A draws on the order of 1400VA IIRC my measurements on one supplying 55A.

Thanks for the info and Wow, Looks like the PD80 is worse than I thought for draw!. I see why it requires a 20A circuit.

Sure am glad now that I went for the PD60A instead of the PD80. It's fine with the honda 2000 and my bank of 4 GC even at altitude. But it does give the honda a workout.

If I really need to "poor the coals" to the batteries, I dig out my second honda, parallel them and fire up the PD60 in the pass through and the PD55A in the panel and hit the batteries with about 110A. That combo will hold high current for quite a while before it starts to sag.

Good to hear what is really working. The modern inverter generators do one thing perfectly; they protect themselves! It wold be a shame to buy all this high price equipment and find out that the generator kicks out because of an inductive load spike. The real test is Joe consumer using it. My application is a PD9140 w charge wizard with a Honda Eu1000i against a group 27, 12v batt. Then gen runs at about 1/2 throttle Let's hear what people are using!

MM49

[ktmrfs]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi ktmrfs,

When I wrote PD they told me all their units are a power factor of 0.7. So the 1300 watts becomes about 1857 va. Not pretty with a genny rated for 1600 va. Then take it up above sea level. If the battery bank is truly flat with six six volts it is not going to be reliable.

The only reason it would work is if the pd doesn't zip up to full output i.e. with sagging voltage. I have seen that in person with the 40 amp pd in the RV I call home probably because the maker skimped on the wire size from the converter to the battery bank.

The person might consider solar?

ktmrfs wrote:

True, the PD80 may draw about 1300 watts, but closer to 1600-1700 VA, so it's marginal on a honda 2000, right at it's continous rating. Like so many RV appliances, actual current draw is more than the "watts" rating indicates.

The PD60A draws on the order of 1400VA IIRC my measurements on one supplying 55A.

Thanks for the info and Wow, Looks like the PD80 is worse than I thought for draw!. I see why it requires a 20A circuit.

Sure am glad now that I went for the PD60A instead of the PD80. It's fine with the honda 2000 and my bank of 4 GC even at altitude. But it does give the honda a workout.

If I really need to "poor the coals" to the batteries, I dig out my second honda, parallel them and fire up the PD60 in the pass through and the PD55A in the panel and hit the batteries with about 110A. That combo will hold high current for quite a while before it starts to sag.

[pianotuna]

Hi ktmrfs,

When I wrote PD they told me all their units are a power factor of 0.7. So the 1300 watts becomes about 1857 va. Not pretty with a genny rated for 1600 va. Then take it up above sea level. If the battery bank is truly flat with six six volts it is not going to be reliable.

The only reason it would work is if the pd doesn't zip up to full output i.e. with sagging voltage. I have seen that in person with the 40 amp pd in the RV I call home probably because the maker skimped on the wire size from the converter to the battery bank.

The person might consider solar?

ktmrfs wrote:

True, the PD80 may draw about 1300 watts, but closer to 1600-1700 VA, so it's marginal on a honda 2000, right at it's continous rating. Like so many RV appliances, actual current draw is more than the "watts" rating indicates.

The PD60A draws on the order of 1400VA IIRC my measurements on one supplying 55A.

[ktmrfs]

Land:

Since it sounds like they haven't bought a generator yet, I'd suggest they look at yamaha's as well. The yamaha 2400 should be able to either
(a) handle a bigger converter
(b) let them run a PD80, powermax 100 and have some spare power for other stuff that might be on like charging a computer, etc.

[pianotuna]

Hi land,

1440 is 90% of the rated output at sea level. He isn't. It would be better to aim at 80% of the rated output for continuous use.

[BFL13]

Fisherguy Vancouver BC
Senior Member
Joined: 07/31/2003

Posted: 08/21/11 11:12am Link | Print | Notify Moderator

I have a 2000 watt Honda, I just make sure the fridge is set to GAS and have no problem driving my PD9280. Makes the Honda work a little for a while though.


06 Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins 6 spd std with a few goodies.

2007 Komfort 274TS, SteadyFast stabilizers, Trimetric 2025RV, PD9280, Honda EU2000i, Xantrex SW600, shocks and EZ-Flex suspension, Reese Strait-Line

I can't find his graph right now but the PD9280 went into boost at 14.4 ok if anybody was wondering about that aspect

[ktmrfs]

wa8yxm wrote:
3 pair of GC-2 batteries can suck about 180-200 amps of power if you can find a converter that big.. I do not think you will.

A 1,000 watt GENRAC portable generator (True 1,kw) can power a PDI 9180 with a single pair of dead GC-2's. I know. I killed them and restored them to charge.

I would say 150 amps is possible with a Honda 2000, (Not a true 2kw generator)

But I do not think you will find a converter that big.

I'd say that generator is very conservatively spec'd, kudos to them. It' actually cranking out about 1600VA with the 9180 hooked up and full output.

With most honda 2000's It's very hard to get them to hold 2000VA for more than a few seconds in most cases, 1800VA for more than a few minutes.

[ktmrfs]

ktmrfs wrote:

RoyB wrote:
The front panel of the Honda EU20001 says 13.3AMPs at 120VAC... That is around 1600WATTS...


I use my 2KW Honda to re-charge my three 85AH batteries in parallel using a PD9260C COnverter. I read 52-53AMPS DC Current being drawn by my battery bank for about 10 minutes then it start dropping back.

I can recharge my three batteries back up to the 90% charge state with-in a three hour run time on my 2KW Generator.

I think the PD9280 Converter input watts is around 1300WATTS at 120VAC so the 2KW Honda Generator should run that ok. IT does however state you should plug the PD9280 converter into a 20AMP receptacle, I think the 2KW Honda Generator only has a 15AMP 120VAC receptacle on it....

I suspect you do not have enough WATTAGE capability from the 2KW Honda Generator to re-charge your battery banks back up to 90% charge state in a three hour generator run time period. The rule of thumb is somewhere around 20AMPs of DC current for each battery in your bank to obtain a 90% charge state in a short three hour generator run time.

Maybe the experts will dime in here on what you need to make it work...

Roy Ken

Roy,

I get on my soapbox about generators, appliances, watts and volt amps to often, but here it goes again, since it often results in folks either getting something that doesn't work, or trying to figure out what is going on.

I do agree, the honda 2000 and a PD60A converter make a reliable great running combo. That is what I use and the generator has enough reserve to run the PD60A and 100-200VA to spare if needed.

the issue is that the honda is NOT a 1600watt generator unless connected to a resistive load. It is spec'd as a 1600VA (volt amps) generator.

True, the PD80 may draw about 1300 watts, but closer to 1600-1700 VA, so it's marginal on a honda 2000, right at it's continous rating. Like so many RV appliances, actual current draw is more than the "watts" rating indicates.

The PD60A draws on the order of 1400VA IIRC my measurements on one supplying 55A.

Chargers like the powermax are "power factor corrected" So the watts and VoltAmps are very close to the same. Kudos to them for addressing an RV issue.

Unforetunetly, IMHO generator mfg and RV parts mfg are doing folks a disservice by stating only watts. They should have a watts and VA spec. That way folks would have a better idea of what will work.


There are generators that have seperate specs for watts and VA.

[ktmrfs]

RoyB wrote:
The front panel of the Honda EU20001 says 13.3AMPs at 120VAC... That is around 1600WATTS...


I use my 2KW Honda to re-charge my three 85AH batteries in parallel using a PD9260C COnverter. I read 52-53AMPS DC Current being drawn by my battery bank for about 10 minutes then it start dropping back.

I can recharge my three batteries back up to the 90% charge state with-in a three hour run time on my 2KW Generator.

I think the PD9280 Converter input watts is around 1300WATTS at 120VAC so the 2KW Honda Generator should run that ok. IT does however state you should plug the PD9280 converter into a 20AMP receptacle, I think the 2KW Honda Generator only has a 15AMP 120VAC receptacle on it....

I suspect you do not have enough WATTAGE capability from the 2KW Honda Generator to re-charge your battery banks back up to 90% charge state in a three hour generator run time period. The rule of thumb is somewhere around 20AMPs of DC current for each battery in your bank to obtain a 90% charge state in a short three hour generator run time.

Maybe the experts will dime in here on what you need to make it work...

Roy Ken

Roy,

I get on my soapbox about generators, appliances, watts and volt amps to often, but here it goes again, since it often results in folks either getting something that doesn't work, or trying to figure out what is going on.

the issue is that the honda is NOT a 1600watt generator unless connected to a resistive load. It is spec'd as a 1600VA (volt amps) generator.

True, the PD80 may draw about 1300 watts, but closer to 1600-1700 VA, so it's marginal on a honda 2000, right at it's continous rating. Like so many RV appliances, actual current draw is more than the "watts" rating indicates.

The PD60A draws on the order of 1400VA IIRC my measurements on one supplying 55A.

Chargers like the powermax are "power factor corrected" So the watts and VoltAmps are very close to the same. Kudos to them for addressing an RV issue.

Unforetunetly, IMHO generator mfg and RV parts mfg are doing folks a disservice by stating only watts. They should have a watts and VA spec. That way folks would have a better idea of what will work.


There are generators that have seperate specs for watts and VA.

[BFL13]

The off the shelf PowerMax gets the batteries to 14.6v then drops to a more gentle 13.6v for the Absorption stage. The SOC of the batteries when that happens depends on the charging rate.

My 100amnper on a 458AH bank gets them from 50 to 73% SOC at the 100a then amps taper. It is all proportional so with six batts that would be at a lower charging rate so at a higher SOC when it drops to 13.6,

So he should be happy with that 100amper, but he could be faster charging if he used more amps to start with on his six batts and had a charger that stayed at the higher voltage for Vabs. But you can't do that with a Honda 2000, so IMO your recommendation is spot on.

[2oldman]

landyacht318 wrote:
I've recommended the powermax 100 amp as its 1440 watts figure is still below 1600 watt maximum of the honda 2000.

Yep, but it's going to work the little guy pretty hard.